Putin & Trump and Journalists

Tue Mar 21 19:06:21 CDT 2017

Yep.

We need an Indépendant Prosecteur.

David Morris

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 5:42 PM Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Russia Times is like the WORST. Anybody who cashes a check from those
> bozos is suspect, in my opinion.
>
> Basically, anybody insisting "there's no THERE there" about Russia is
> full of shit at this point. The evidence is overwhelming that Trump
> has a ton of shady goings-on with Putin/Russia (those two being
> interchangeable at this point) and Russian organized crime/oligarchs
> (those two being interchangeable at this point). And NO, I don't say
> this to "deflect attention from Hillary's shortcomings as a
> candidate", or out of some "suicidal urge to spark thermonuclear
> conflagration" or whatever other idiotic bullshit Glenn Greenwald,
> Jacobin, Chris Hedges, WikiLeaks, or the alt.left have to say about
> it.
>
> J.
>
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 8:03 AM, Allan Balliett
> <allan.balliett at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Back on the WHITE HELMETS thread
> >
> > I ran across this on the Russian Times site this morning (Can anyone
> vouch
> > for or condemn Russian Times as a  news source?)
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBxgZot3U74&feature=em-uploademail
> >
> > A rather chaotic news report by evening news standards, but I must say I
> was
> > taken back by how presentable Assad is in this report.
> >
> > -Allan in WV
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Thomas Eckhardt
> > <thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de> wrote:
> >>
> >> One more longish comment which I want to get off my chest, then it is
> back
> >> to short replies and Pynchon- or Pynchon-related stuff. Thank you rich
> and
> >> Joseph Tracy for your thoughtful comments.
> >>
> >> Am 28.01.2017 um 13:24 schrieb ish mailian:
> >>
> >> >The suffering, the murder of countless children of women, of men, the
> >> >destruction of property, of the good earth, its waters and plants and
> >> >beasts, the waste of resources and monies, the fractioning and
> >> >sullying of cultures and peoples is far worse than the propaganda
> >> >reports.
> >>
> >> And:
> >>
> >> >It doesn't seem to make sense since all sides are out to exaggerate the
> >> >war crimes of their enemies while making themselves out as saviors or
> >> >at least on balance the better devils in a battle that must be waged.
> >> >This war is not merely a figment of mass propaganda and mass media
> >> >simulations. It is not a war game. It is not rhetoric and images. The
> >> >rhetoric, the images, the mass media feeds from embedded propagandists
> >> >paid for with Western greed and US Empire, do not exceed the
> >> >real-world suffering and barbarism. This is not a chessboard of
> >> >deterrence where pivots and real-politic are the real war, what's
> >> >really going on. What's goin on as Marvin Gay says, is that, "there's
> >> >too many of us dying."
> >>
> >> Are you saying, in so many words, that propaganda is not important
> because
> >> it is only images and words whereas the suffering in war is real?
> Implying
> >> that there is no connection between propaganda and war? If so, I
> honestly
> >> don't know what to say.
> >>
> >> We are talking about specific actions. In my opinion, it would be
> >> impossible to uphold the official narrative about events in the Ukraine
> and
> >> in Syria if certain facts were known, that is, if the mainstream media
> were
> >> doing their job. They are not doing their job, they don't want to, for
> >> reasons one may well speculate about, and this is made easier for them
> by
> >> specific propaganda outlets that have intentionally be put in place in
> order
> >> to promote the Western narrative and suppress other points-of-view.
> These
> >> media outlets include the White Helmets (funded with at least one
> hundred
> >> million dollars by Western governments and promoted as "heroes"), the
> Aleppo
> >> Media Center (funded by the French government) and the Ukrainian Crisis
> >> Media Center (funded by NATO, the US embassy in Kiev, the NED and George
> >> Soros' International Renaissance Foundation, amongst others -- follow
> the
> >> money, as the wise man said). Most Western media receive their
> information
> >> only through these embedded media outlets.
> >>
> >> Embedding media outlets in the opposition groups of the country you want
> >> to destabilise in order to bring about regime change is a rather
> >> sophisticated means of perception management / propaganda /
> manufacturing of
> >> consent. David Atlee Pillips would be proud. In the final analysis,
> what the
> >> White Helmets peddle is, of course, good old atrocity propaganda:
> >>
> >> "Atrocity propaganda is a term referring to the spreading of deliberate
> >> fabrications or exaggerations about the crimes committed by an enemy,
> >> constituting a form of psychological warfare. The inherently violent
> nature
> >> of war means that exaggeration and invention of atrocities often
> becomes the
> >> main staple of propaganda. Patriotism is often not enough to make people
> >> hate, and propaganda is also necessary. 'So great are the psychological
> >> resistances to war in modern nations", wrote Harold Lasswell, "that
> every
> >> war must appear to be a war of defense against a menacing, murderous
> >> aggressor. There must be no ambiguity about who the public is to hate.'"
> >>
> >> Wiki, "Atrocity propaganda"
> >>
> >> Old, simple and obvious but surprisingly effective. Children work best.
> >>
> >> What is new, at least in terms of the meticulous preparation that went
> >> into it, is that the information/propaganda is attributed to "citizen
> >> activists" on the ground.
> >>
> >>
> >> In this case, I have suggested that Western governments have created, in
> >> the form of the White Helmets and the Aleppo Media Center, a propaganda
> >> apparatus within the ranks of the insurgents in Syria and in particular
> >> eastern Aleppo specifically for the purpose of peddling atrocity
> propaganda
> >> to the Western mainstream media, and that the Western mainstream media
> have
> >> uncritically forwarded to the public whatever "activists", "citizen
> >> journalists" and "citizen first responders" told them. This was
> presumably
> >> intended to prepare the ground for more robust Western action up to the
> >> establishment of a NFZ. I will come back to this.
> >>
> >>
> >> But first, some more specifics (I will not be able to avoid lapsing into
> >> polemics/cynicism  -- which you will have to excuse):
> >>
> >> As Patrick Cockburn pointed out in the article that rich thankfully has
> >> linked to, there have been no independent journalists in eastern Aleppo
> for
> >> fear of having their heads cut off by Western supported "moderate
> rebels".
> >> Interesting.
> >>
> >> Still, the Western media portrayed the insurgents as victims of a
> barbaric
> >> attack by Russian and Syrian bombing, even though the most powerful
> faction
> >> in eastern Aleppo was Al-Nusra -- i.e. Al-Qaida who are supposed to be
> our
> >> foremost enemy because of 9/11 -- and the US have shown no compunction
> >> whatsoever with regard to bombing al-Qaida-members, their relatives and
> some
> >> unrelated wedding parties through the years.
> >>
> >> (There is a cognitive dissonance at work here that you can drive several
> >> tanks through. Right to the Russian border. As is happening right now.)
> >>
> >> To be sure, there were also moderate rebels in eastern Aleppo. These
> were,
> >> in breach of the international law which was oh so important in the
> case of
> >> Crimea, rather openly supported by the US. There is, for example, the
> >> Al-Zinki militia. Some members of which, I repeat, beheaded a child, on
> >> camera, with a small knife:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/20/fighters-from-us-backed-moderate-syrian-rebel-group-filmed-cutti/
> >>
> >> You are aware of this "incident" (Mark Toner), no? If not, ask yourself,
> >> why not.
> >>
> >>
> >> The Western mainstream media never reported that the White Helmets were
> >> founded and trained by a former British military intelligence officer.
> You
> >> certainly were aware of this? If not, ask yourself, why not.
> >>
> >> You are surely aware of the fact that the White Helmets, who are said to
> >> be "fiercely independent" and impartial, only work in territory held by
> the
> >> insurgents? If not, ask yourself, why not.
> >>
> >>
> >> You have heard about the aid convoy that was supposedly attacked from
> the
> >> air. This happened rather conveniently shortly after the US broke an
> >> armistice negotiated, which is interesting in itself, between the US and
> >> Russia by "mistakenly" attacking the Syrian army, killing about a
> hundred
> >> soldiers and effectively acting as the Daesh air force.
> >>
> >> A White Helmet member, who just happened to be there when the aid convoy
> >> was attacked, told us all about it -- while being filmed by a camera
> man who
> >> also just happened to be there:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2016/sep/20/syria-aftermath-of-airstrike-on-un-aid-convoy-video
> >>
> >> US officials immediately claimed that Russia was the culprit:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/20/un-aid-convoy-attack-syria-us-russia
> >>
> >> Everybody was enraged. Had the Russians committed a war crime? Surely
> they
> >> had.
> >>
> >> General Dunsford (proving once again that satire is dead): "I don’t have
> >> the facts. There is no doubt in my mind that the Russians are
> responsible."
> >>
> >> You have certainly heard about the attack on the aid convoy. It was
> >> frontpage news everywhere. Have you also heard about the report of the
> UN
> >> team that was charged with investigating the incident?
> >>
> >> Here is the summary of the report:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://dpa-ps.atavist.com/summary-of-un-headquarters-board-of-inquiry-report
> >>
> >> What does it say? The Russians didn't do it, the Syrians probably did do
> >> it, but are for various reasons cleared from the allegation of having
> >> committed a war crime. One country claimed that it did not have enough
> time
> >> to provide satellite imagery for the investigation. This was probably
> the
> >> same country that claimed it had proof that Russian
> sparatists/federalists
> >> in eastern Ukraine had shot down MH-17 but refused to provide the
> satellite
> >> imagery.
> >>
> >> You are aware of this UN report, no? If not, ask yourself, why not.
> >>
> >>
> >> >The barbarism of Assad and Putin is far worse than anything
> >> >that has been reported by  anyone thus far. How do I know this?
> >>
> >> Good question. How do you know this?
> >>
> >>
> >> If the people in the West were aware of the fact that their governments
> >> fund, arm and train neo-Nazis in Ukraine (this is official, David
> Morris at
> >> least had the balls to state that he thinks funding neo-Nazi militias is
> >> okay if it helps to spread freedom and democracy and oppose the Russian
> >> threat) and Al-Qaida in Syria (presumably only by proxy) and
> consciously let
> >> ISIS grow (according to John Kerry and the DIA memo) in order to bring
> about
> >> the desired regime changes, they just might begin to ask questions.
> >>
> >> I happen to naively believe that the media has the responsibility to
> make
> >> the people aware of these facts.
> >>
> >> But you just have to compare the NYT's take on Kerry's remarks to the
> >> members of Syrian opposition groups with the full transcript to see
> that our
> >> trusted liberal media consciously lie by omission:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/09/30/world/middleeast/john-kerry-syria-audio.html?_r=0
> >>
> >> What? No mention of this:
> >>
> >> "The reason Russia came in is because ISIL was getting stronger. Daesh
> was
> >> threatening the possibility of going to Damascus at some point and
> that’s
> >> why Russia came in. Because they didn’t want a Daesh government and they
> >> supported Assad. And we knew that this was growing, we were watching.
> >>
> >> We saw that Daesh was growing in strength and we thought Assad was
> >> [indecipherable]. We thought however, that we could probably manage that
> >> Assad might then negotiate. Instead of negotiating, he got Putin to
> support
> >> him."
> >>
> >> Is this an admission that the US let ISIS intentionally grow in order to
> >> put Assad under pressure? I should think so, especially if I read the
> DIA
> >> memo alongside Kerry's remarks.
> >>
> >> But why is there a military alliance of several Western states engaged
> in
> >> Syria? That's right, because they want to fight ISIS.
> >>
> >> I will spell it out: The West let IS grow, let them behead and crucify
> >> whoever they wanted to, because the first and foremost goal was regime
> >> change in Syria.
> >>
> >> Not to mention that regime changes are blatantly illegal under
> >> international law anyway...
> >>
> >>
> >> >It's a slippery slope that Thomas has veered onto here because his
> >> >analysis implies that the dying and killing, the barbarism of Putin
> >> >and Assad can't be measured or condemned because there is no truth we
> >> >can count from, no truth we can stand on. Who knows what's goin on?
> >> >There's too many of us dying. We know this much is true.
> >>
> >> "Brother, brother..."
> >>
> >> "Barbarism" is Samantha Powers' propaganda term. All we have is
> >> international law and the UN, however compromised both may be. Russia's
> >> actions in Syria are in accordance with international law, like it or
> not.
> >> The US and its allies are not acting in accordance with international
> law in
> >> Syria. Kerry himself has pointed this out in the conversation quoted
> above.
> >>
> >> The important thing on the propaganda level was therefore to manufacture
> >> consent about Syria and Russia committing war crimes as opposed to
> >> conducting a "normal war" -- like presumably the US and its allies do
> >> (Cockburn rightfully pointed to Mosul for comparison of the reporting).
> This
> >> is where the White Helmets and their atrocity propaganda became
> important.
> >>
> >> Riding on the propaganda wave, Clinton thought the time had come to
> >> establish a unilateral NFZ which would have been illegal and, again
> >> according to General Dunsford, would have provoked war with Russia:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/11/west-must-confront-russia-over-aleppo-syria-emergency-commons-debate-to-hear
> >>
> >> This is how dangerous organisations like the White Helmets are. They
> just
> >> might bring about nuclear winter.
> >>
> >>
> >> But you are certainly right in that this is a slippery slope: If we
> cannot
> >> trust the liberal mainstream media any longer, to whom do we turn for
> >> truthful reporting, for discerning facts from propaganda? After Ukraine
> I am
> >> afraid that, basically, we are on our own.
> >>
> >> That the American people elected an habitual liar (not to mention a
> racist
> >> and misogynist) to be their President surely does not help. But at
> least it
> >> seems that WW III has been deferred.
> >>
> >> What more can one ask for?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -
> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> >
> >
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://waste.org/pipermail/pynchon-l/attachments/20170322/4aa53bbf/attachment.html>