This is very much NOT NP. All P.

[Laura Kelber]

I'll agree that today's standards (both the corporate-approved and the
shrill academic) are not only increasingly strange, but increasingly
oppressive for all artists.

LK

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Atticus Pinecone <atticuspinecone at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Again, it's a theme throughout his works, so dismissing it here would be
> strange. Even calling it liebestod tells me you get it too. If we mix in
> the S&M of GR, I think it brings clarity to the case that eroticism is
> mixed in with the awfulness—perhaps as Mark says, as a sort of adapting or
> integrating the oppression.
>
> As for racism, obviously it doesn't matter if it is or isn't. But I had
> racism explained to me by a Wellesley grad student the other day, and I
> assure you, by today's increasingly strange standards, V. would be
> considered racist.
>
> Or maybe not—what the hell do I know. Besides GR is way more outrageous :^)
>
> On Nov 13, 2017, at 4:51 PM, Laura Kelber <laurakelber at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I don't think that brutalized people seeking the release of (inevitable)
> death can be characterized as " Hereros erotically enjoying their
> destruction and subjugation" or that Pynchon's explorations of liebestod in
> the hip-shake here - dwelled on more notably in the later ballet dancer
> sequence - constitutes disgusting racism.
>
> LK
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 4:34 PM, Atticus Pinecone <
> atticuspinecone at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> So adapting to what's imposed on you?
>>
>> On Nov 13, 2017, at 3:45 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> "the psychopathology or colonization"...
>>
>> how, psychically, the colonized can inevitably internalize the sickness
>> and sick pleasure of the colonizer...
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Atticus Pinecone <
>> atticuspinecone at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't catch your meaning.
>>>
>>> On Nov 13, 2017, at 3:23 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I think Ms d'Abbadie knows from thinkers like Fanon, Seghor and her own
>>> experience (somehow) of how the answers to this are answered:
>>> "He presents the Hereros as erotically enjoying their destruction &
>>> subjugation—and compares black skin and shit."
>>>
>>> For the above, see the below:
>>> "As an intellectual <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectualism>,
>>> Fanon was a political radical
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_radicalism>, Pan-Africanist
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Africanism>, and Marxist humanist
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxist_humanism> concerned with the
>>> psychopathology <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathology> of
>>> colonization <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization>,[2]
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Fanon#cite_note-2> and the human,
>>> social, and cultural consequences of decolonization
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decolonization>.[3]
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Fanon#cite_note-3>[4]
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Fanon#cite_note-4>[5]
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Fanon#cite_note-5> "
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Atticus Pinecone <
>>> atticuspinecone at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't see why Pynchon gets a "pass" on V. & GR.
>>>>
>>>> He presents the Hereros as erotically enjoying their destruction &
>>>> subjugation—and compares black skin and shit.
>>>>
>>>> Alexandra d'Abbadie is down with that? Or did she miss it?
>>>>
>>>> If you're subscribing to this style of thought, our good friend Tommy
>>>> not only doesn't get a pass, he's one of the worst, most disgusting
>>>> offenders.
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 13, 2017, at 11:20 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> https://electricliterature.com/thomas-pynchon-shows-us-how-w
>>>> hite-writers-can-avoid-appropriation-8902a5563a1c
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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