NP - It Was the Racism (not economics)

Fri Nov 24 09:09:35 CST 2017

What you mean by "we," white man?

On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 9:51 PM Atticus Pinecone <atticuspinecone at gmail.com>
wrote:

> As Pynchon people we should know better. Blacks, whites, yellows, let's
> skip the sweeping conclusions please.
>
> > On Nov 23, 2017, at 10:38 PM, L E Bryan <lebryan at sonic.net> wrote:
> >
> > It seems to me that talking about “blacks” as a whole is more and more
> like discussing “blue-eyed”. Aside from the hue, what more can be said
> about the entire group?
> >
> > Lawrence
> >
> >> On Nov 23, 2017, at 3:12 PM, Becky Lindroos <bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> And a lot of it is over-simplification and sometimes stereotyping.
>  There are huge blocks of blacks and Latinos who vote with the evangelical
> and Catholic churches against abortion and LGBT issues and so on.   Blacks
> are also anti-immigration because they fear it’s about their jobs, too.
> Latinos tend toward small business ideas in the southwest - another Trump
> agenda item.
> >>
> >>
> >> Becky
> >> https://beckylindroos.wordpress.com
> >>
> >>> On Nov 23, 2017, at 11:32 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Both is an excuse, not analysis.  If "economic anxiety" is one of
> "both," it was leveraged into racial anxiety.  And racial anxiety spans all
> economic classes. Economic fears are real. Racial fears are tools for
> exploitation.
> >>>
> >>> David Morris
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 12:48 PM da kid <peterock86 at live.com> wrote:
> >>> It was both. End of story. People getting screwed by the economy and
> being lied to, convincing them that it's China, illegal s, and blacks. Sad
> how the country is being balkanized.
> >>> From: owner-pynchon-l at waste.org <owner-pynchon-l at waste.org> on behalf
> of David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 12:00:05 AM
> >>> To: Robert Mahnke
> >>> Cc: Atticus Pinecone; Chris v; Paul Mackin; pynchon -l
> >>> Subject: Re: NP - It Was the Racism (not economics)
> >>>
> >>> Trump running against Obama was never an overt message, but all other
> racism was cool.  Trump was so dissed by Obama at that Press Dinner that
> Trump later became a cartoon car bomb on our democracy.  BLAMB! Then all
> laughs, on us.
> >>>
> >>> Cool.  But,  "Look further than race"  shouldn't mean discount it.
> It's always a gumbo, but Trump made racism front and central in that mix.
> >>>
> >>> David Morris
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 10:30 PM Robert Mahnke <rpmahnke at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>> I guess one thought I have about that article in the context of this
> thread is that while it captures something important about Trump and his
> support, to me it doesn't do a good job explaining the election. Trump
> wasn't really running against Obama, who was still popular enough that I
> think he would have beat Trump easily in a head-to-head race. If you want
> to explain Trump's success in getting elected, I think you have to look
> farther than race.
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 8:24 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>> I loved that article!  Our white press has a really hard time calling
> out white racism.
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 10:16 PM Robert Mahnke <rpmahnke at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>> This piece by Adam Serwer is worthy of your time, and not unrelated to
> what we're talking about:
> >>>
> >>>
> https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/the-nationalists-delusion/546356/
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 7:56 PM, Chris v <traditionalgb at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>> I assumed you were intelligent enough to make the inference
> >>>
> >>> On 20 Nov 2017 9:40 pm, "David Morris" <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Too many links w no synopsis or click bait headlines.  Give a little
> more effort if you expect a response.
> >>> My unsolicited advice.
> >>>
> >>> David Morris
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:26 PM Chris v <traditionalgb at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>> It hurts cuz I like mother jones, but come on.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/aviksaroy/2016/11/19/man-bites-dog-trump-did-better-with-minorities-than-mitt-romney-did-in-2012/
> >>>
> >>>
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/11/11/trump-got-more-votes-from-people-of-color-than-romney-did-heres-the-data/
> >>>
> >>>
> https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/2016-election-day/trump-did-better-blacks-hispanics-romney-12-exit-polls-n681386
> >>>
> >>>
> http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/behind-trumps-victory-divisions-by-race-gender-education/
> >>>
> >>> On 20 Nov 2017 6:43 pm, "David Morris" <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Esdall:
> >>>
> >>> In some respects, the data gathered by Orfield’s team is good news for
> Democrats. The core of Trump’s support lies in counties and municipalities
> like Dravosburg and Elk County, many of which are losing population. They
> are, in effect, the last gasp of white hegemony.
> >>> [...]
> >>> what is really striking is how much influence over the course of
> events was exercised by the relatively small numbers of voters in
> super-white municipalities and counties and by the politician who ignited
> them — how the last gasp of a small fraction of the electorate set the
> nation on such a dangerous and destructive course.
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 6:17 PM Robert Mahnke <rpmahnke at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>> At the risk of stating the obvious, Romney got 47.2% of the vote and
> Trump got only 46.1%. (Numbers per Wikipedia, which never makes mistakes.)
> So if one is trying to look for reasons that Trump won, looking at where he
> outperformed Romney doesn't quite go to the question, although it's not a
> worthless inquiry. Where Trump really outperformed was in the Electoral
> College.
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>> MJ's piece was entirely based on the Thomas B. Esdall piece, which was
> a prime example of what-put-Trump-over-the-top-ism.
> >>>
> >>> A lot of things put Trump over the top.
> >>>
> >>> Socking it to the Elite is my favorite.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 5:44 PM, Atticus Pinecone <
> atticuspinecone at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Right, what's the link there? White people feel that way? There's no
> poll. Seems like a bit of a leap.
> >>>
> >>> And NPR told me it was dumb poor white people voting for Trump...
> >>>
> >>> I've been reading MJ for almost a decade, they've taken a weird turn
> ever since this last election :^(
> >>>
> >>>> On Nov 20, 2017, at 4:55 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Um, the article said this:
> >>>>
> >>>> "Anger, fear and animosity toward immigrants and minorities"
> >>>>
> >>>> That's his thesis.  Makes sense to me.  "Economic Anxiety" was just
> an excuse.
> >>>>
> >>>> David Morris
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Atticus Pinecone <
> atticuspinecone at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> How does racism work in? Their skin color?
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Nov 20, 2017, at 2:52 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/11/heres-how-the-residents-of-super-white-america-voted-in-2016/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "In most places, even those that are heavily white, Trump won a
> smaller share of the vote than Romney did. The only places where he
> outperformed Romney were in the very whitest suburbs and small towns.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Put another way, anger, fear and animosity toward immigrants and
> minorities was most politically potent in the communities most insulated
> from these supposed threats."
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>    Virus-free. www.avg.com
> >>
> >> -
> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list
> >
>
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