Need to hear what some smart people have to say about this.

Sun Oct 29 09:28:18 CDT 2017

Yeah, laura, me too...

Proud to have been called philosemitic among friends in my career, I do see
that anti-semitism around too. I grew up with it around me in
Pittsburgh. One of my shames about it, I won't put down here since,

such confession here would only be showing off in reverse.

On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Arthur Fuller <fuller.artful at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Laura,You are a very smart woman and I hope to converse with you many
> times in the future. Wow. I've just re-read your mail for the third timse,
> an remain impressed and moved,.
>
> On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 7:48 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Laura,
>>
>> Your post was nuanced, but the US media always favors  Israel's Right
>> Wing.  US religious wing nuts are theologically invested in the conversion
>> of Isreal.  It is their Camelot.  God blast them!
>>
>> David Morris
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 5:58 PM Laura Kelber <laurakelber at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> This is a painful topic for me. I loathe the right-wing militaristic
>>> Zionistic wing of Jewish identity. I come from the communist and/or
>>> politically progressive, secular strain that helped shape the intellectual
>>> life of NYC when I was growing up in the 60s. Now it's the rightwing
>>> Orthodox and Hasidic Jews that dominate the Jewish community. Where the
>>> hell did all the secular, progressive Jews go?!
>>>
>>> But much as I loathe both the American and Israeli strains of Zionism,
>>> I'm hypersensitive to the antisemitism that simmers below the surface of a
>>> lot of so-called progressive groups and individuals. A failure to recognize
>>> and protest the antisemitism of the alt-right and white supremacists, for
>>> example. A willingness to buy into the "rich Jewish banker" and
>>> "Jewish-controlled media" stereotypes. Hell, I buy into some of those
>>> stereotypes myself, sometimes. But I'm allowed to, because I'm Jewish.
>>> Non-Jews, proceed with caution! I don't need a disclaimer about how your
>>> best friend is Jewish, but I do need to hear an acknowledgement that
>>> antisemitism exists and that Jews of any ideology have a right to be
>>> paranoid about it.
>>>
>>> Even though antisemitic signs were prominently displayed in Charlotte,
>>> VA, none of the knee jerk lefty emails I got mentioned antisemitism. It
>>> just isn't sexy to decry antisemitism. Look, I can understand that. Black
>>> people are beaten, murdered and incarcerated all over this country every
>>> fucking day. That's not happening to Jews.
>>>
>>> But there is and always has been an antisemitic strain in this country,
>>> and, perhaps stoked by the internet, it's become particularly virulent
>>> lately. It was ever-present in the construction industry when I worked
>>> there in the 80s and 90s. Job sites were frequently racially and ethnically
>>> segregated, and I was often placed in the "Jew crew." Not uncommon for us
>>> to bear the brunt of being "tightwad Jews" or, in my case, a "Jewess cunt."
>>> "Hey, you know who the world's biggest cunt is? Hitler, 'cause he couldn't
>>> even finish the job!" And so on.
>>>
>>> Just recently made the mistake of reading the comments on a mainstream
>>> news story about Weinstein. The comments started in on the "typical Jewish"
>>> behavior of that trio - Weinstein, Polanski and Woody Allen, then on to how
>>> they were a disgrace to the white race, and finally, to an argument about
>>> whether Jews could even be considered white.
>>>
>>> So, yeah, it's obnoxious when anyone who's legitimately outraged by
>>> Israel's racist/militaristic actions gets branded an antisemite. But it
>>> would be nice if those same anti-zionists expressed a little dismay over
>>> the seething hatred of Jews that so many non-Jews seem to foster. Because
>>> it's pretty disturbing.
>>>
>>> Laura
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 28, 2017 4:41 PM, "da kid" <peterock86 at live.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* da kid <peterock86 at live.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 28, 2017 8:05:33 AM
>>>> *To:* Mark Thibodeau
>>>> *Subject:* Re: Need to hear what some smart people have to say about
>>>> this.
>>>>
>>>> Im not that smart but I think it is really really really sad that
>>>> people feel they have to write a paragraph that attempts to prove they
>>>> don't hate Jews before they can criticize Israel. I am also what you call a
>>>> philo-semite but Israel's treatment of Palestine is abhorrent. The recent
>>>> hubbub about Hebron, which is in Palestine, not being called Israeli is
>>>> another recent example of false "anti-Semitism" accusations being thrown
>>>> about. There is definitely a rich and powerful right wing pro Israeli lobby
>>>> in America. That's not antiSemitic to say is it?
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* owner-pynchon-l at waste.org <owner-pynchon-l at waste.org> on
>>>> behalf of Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 28, 2017 3:52:59 AM
>>>> *To:* pynchon -l
>>>> *Subject:* Need to hear what some smart people have to say about this.
>>>>
>>>> First things first... and I hate that I have to state this up front
>>>> (but considering the subject matter, I feel that I must)... I am not an
>>>> anti-Semite. In fact, if anything, I'm a Judeophile, or philo-Semite. Many
>>>> of my heroes are Jews. I think Jewish women are among the world's must
>>>> beautiful. I have many Jewish friends, some of whom are among my closest
>>>> and most beloved. In short, I am no Jew-hater.
>>>>
>>>> But I'm also a huge fan or the musician Roger Waters. A lifelong
>>>> admirer of both his music and his obvious sincere, passionately held
>>>> beliefs. Lately, I've noticed a significant uptick in attacks on Waters
>>>> from pro-Israeli news outlets. This week, I learned that there is actually
>>>> an entire documentary film that's been shot, apparently with the sole
>>>> objective of smearing him as an anti-Semite.
>>>>
>>>> While Waters is definitely an opponent of the current regime in Israel,
>>>> and an advocate for Palestinian rights up to and including lending his
>>>> support to the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement, I also
>>>> have seen a lot of accusations made against him with little to zero
>>>> supporting evidence (video, audio, etc). And I definitely think the attacks
>>>> on him have taken on a dangerously aggressive tone.
>>>>
>>>> And then, today, I ran across this article...
>>>>
>>>> *https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.819132?v=448801475EBF52877C3C6DDD9BA51DFF
>>>> <https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.819132?v=448801475EBF52877C3C6DDD9BA51DFF>*
>>>>
>>>> My first compulsion was to check with Snopes, even though the original
>>>> article is from an Israeli paper, just to see if maybe I'd fallen for an
>>>> elaborate prank. There I find...
>>>>
>>>> https://www.snopes.com/texas-harvey-israel/
>>>>
>>>> And as I read, my blood runs a little bit cold.
>>>>
>>>> So I guess my question to you folks here is...
>>>>
>>>> What the fuck is going on here? And in what universe does anyone think
>>>> denying aid to victims of natural disasters unless they pledge never to
>>>> take part in the BDS movement isn't going to backfire spectacularly?
>>>>
>>>> Jerky
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free.
>>>> www.avg.com
>>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
>>>> <#m_1226043763756275245_m_-1617203134040161763_m_-465245055819979829_m_521546189736007454_m_-2142130621856274249_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
> Arthur
>
>
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