Um... could this be "it"?

[Paul Mackin]

 *There* are known knowns; *there* are things we know we know. We also know
*there* are *known unknowns*; that is to say we know *there* are some
things we do not know. But *there* are also *unknown unknowns* — the ones
we don't know we don't know. And if one looks throughout the history of our
country and other free ...
☺

On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 3:39 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:

> You are correct about overstating the case......too hastily did not
> distinguish between a Special Prosecuters' team's fact-based indictments and
> the same fact-based reporting that so many will doubt--have doubted--
> because it hasn't been "vetted' yet by solid evidence-based lawyers, grand
> juries, etc.
>
> The kind of solid fact-finding reporting-- before a Special Prosecutor
> declares-- that is automatically dismissed by so many because they 'can't
> show their work' , so to speak.
> I know a few folks like that.
>
> Thanks for the rewrite.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 2:53 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>
>> You are overstating the case. An indictment is not legal proof. That
>> requires a trial and close examination of evidence. A trial seems unlikely.
>> None of the evidence Mueller has points to collusion. So that particular
>> media fantasy looks dead in the water. Blaming Jill Stein or Gary Johnson
>> is undemocratic and will not help decent people run and get elected.
>>    I hope Mueller comes up with something that seriously embarrasses
>> Trump or puts him on trial, but I would’t put money on it.
>>
>> > On Feb 18, 2018, at 7:26 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Michiko Kakutani‏Verified account @michikokakutani 5h5 hours ago
>> > More
>> > "Counterterrorism intelligence expert Malcolm Nance: Russians "hacked
>> the mindset of the American public"
>> >
>> > --see the effort to create sympathy and votes for Jill Stein, who,
>> unlike Bernie Sanders, has NOT denounced the PROVEN, NOW-LEGALLY PROVEN--
>> > FACTS about Russian criminal interference in the US election.
>> 'Meddling' is the mainstream euphemism.  (I'll give her more time; we know
>> she doesn't follow US politics very closely)
>> >
>> > Ms Stein got almost 5 times as many votes in Michigan as the difference
>> in votes between Clinton and Trump.
>> > 5 hours ago
>> >
>> > On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 10:45 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > God, you do go on and on... I can barely skim you.
>> >
>> > Also you are so often so misguided.
>> >
>> > Theses indictments are a strategic first salvo.  They are a dare
>> against Trump firing Mueller, and they inherently deligitimze his election,
>> even without any proven collusion.  But collusion is pretty close to
>> treason, and the flipping of Bannon, Manafort, Gates, etc. make collusion a
>> real possible deal.  This shit is BIG, no matter how Republicans try to
>> hide from it.  Their gig is almost up.
>> >
>> > David Morris
>> >
>> > On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 9:02 PM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>> > It does put teeth in the earlier accusations of Russian efforts to
>> smear Hillary, but it strikes me as weak and not likely to go anywhere
>> since the accused are Russians and are highly unikely to go to trial.
>> Mueller also has given a preliminary if not final statement of no
>> collusion, no treasonous relationship between Trump election team and
>> Russia. Indicting people you can’t bring to trial is not so impressive.
>> Also these Russians don’t seem to have done much but post fake news on the
>> web, an act which is so common as to be meaningless. The hacked emails
>> could just as easily been done by someone else and they exposed real
>> misdeeds by the DNC.
>> >   Whether there are different routes by which Mueller can expose
>> Trump’s business relations to Russian Oligarchs is open to question.
>> Unfotunately there may be limits on the scope of his investigation that
>> prevent him from going into Trump’s business dealings especially with no
>> indication of electoral collusion.  One obvious hypocrisy problem with the
>> 13 indictments is that the US interfered in far more direct and
>> questionable ways in Russian politics to get Yeltsin in power. Also
>> >
>> > James Risen is working now for the Intercept and recently posted 2
>> stories about Russia. The first is about CIA/NSA cyber weapons that went
>> missing and seem to be in the hands of the Russians via a group called the
>> Shadow Brokers. If that ain’t werd enough, Risen says US intel offered to
>> buy them , mainly because the US agencies don’t know how much was taken and
>> want to know the extent of the damage. The Russians wanted to throw in
>> damaging info on Trump but the agencies which had sent money to Germany
>> then backed off, possibly to avoid the political repercussions  of
>> processing Trump info with CIA head Pompeo, a  Trump loyalist.
>> >
>> > Now it turns out some of the files in question have been sent to the
>> NYT( Trump files  or cyber spy files is not clear). If they are Trump files
>> and there is some way of the NYT confirming the validity of any of the
>> information this may be the next big story.
>> >
>> > So why would Russia now try to get Trump in trouble? Disinformation?
>> Regrets about Trump? Restore friendlier relations?
>> >
>> > The other Risen story  came out the day before the Mueller announcement
>> and makes it clear Risen thinks the evidence that Russia hacked the DNC
>> files is very conclusive. It seemed like very strong evidence to me to me
>> despite my skepticism about one part where the Russian operative in charge
>> of the operation may be a US double agent and the fact that the DNC servers
>> were never examined by the FBI. Holy shit it just keeps getting weirder.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -
>> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>> >
>>
>> -
>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>
>
>
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