Um... could this be "it"?

Sun Feb 18 19:33:13 CST 2018

Could this be... the acid test for the Flynn effect? 

> On Feb 18, 2018, at 4:08 PM, Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don't know we don't know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free ...  
> ☺
> 
>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 3:39 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>> You are correct about overstating the case......too hastily did not distinguish between a Special Prosecuters' team's fact-based indictments and
>> the same fact-based reporting that so many will doubt--have doubted-- because it hasn't been "vetted' yet by solid evidence-based lawyers, grand juries, etc.
>> 
>> The kind of solid fact-finding reporting-- before a Special Prosecutor declares-- that is automatically dismissed by so many because they 'can't show their work' , so to speak. 
>> I know a few folks like that. 
>> 
>> Thanks for the rewrite. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 2:53 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>>> You are overstating the case. An indictment is not legal proof. That requires a trial and close examination of evidence. A trial seems unlikely. None of the evidence Mueller has points to collusion. So that particular media fantasy looks dead in the water. Blaming Jill Stein or Gary Johnson is undemocratic and will not help decent people run and get elected.
>>>    I hope Mueller comes up with something that seriously embarrasses Trump or puts him on trial, but I would’t put money on it.
>>> 
>>> > On Feb 18, 2018, at 7:26 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Michiko Kakutani‏Verified account @michikokakutani 5h5 hours ago
>>> > More
>>> > "Counterterrorism intelligence expert Malcolm Nance: Russians "hacked the mindset of the American public"
>>> >
>>> > --see the effort to create sympathy and votes for Jill Stein, who, unlike Bernie Sanders, has NOT denounced the PROVEN, NOW-LEGALLY PROVEN--
>>> > FACTS about Russian criminal interference in the US election. 'Meddling' is the mainstream euphemism.  (I'll give her more time; we know she doesn't follow US politics very closely)
>>> >
>>> > Ms Stein got almost 5 times as many votes in Michigan as the difference in votes between Clinton and Trump.
>>> > 5 hours ago
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 10:45 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > God, you do go on and on... I can barely skim you.
>>> >
>>> > Also you are so often so misguided.
>>> >
>>> > Theses indictments are a strategic first salvo.  They are a dare against Trump firing Mueller, and they inherently deligitimze his election, even without any proven collusion.  But collusion is pretty close to treason, and the flipping of Bannon, Manafort, Gates, etc. make collusion a real possible deal.  This shit is BIG, no matter how Republicans try to hide from it.  Their gig is almost up.
>>> >
>>> > David Morris
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 9:02 PM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>>> > It does put teeth in the earlier accusations of Russian efforts to smear Hillary, but it strikes me as weak and not likely to go anywhere since the accused are Russians and are highly unikely to go to trial.  Mueller also has given a preliminary if not final statement of no collusion, no treasonous relationship between Trump election team and Russia. Indicting people you can’t bring to trial is not so impressive. Also these Russians don’t seem to have done much but post fake news on the web, an act which is so common as to be meaningless. The hacked emails could just as easily been done by someone else and they exposed real misdeeds by the DNC.
>>> >   Whether there are different routes by which Mueller can expose Trump’s business relations to Russian Oligarchs is open to question. Unfotunately there may be limits on the scope of his investigation that prevent him from going into Trump’s business dealings especially with no indication of electoral collusion.  One obvious hypocrisy problem with the 13 indictments is that the US interfered in far more direct and questionable ways in Russian politics to get Yeltsin in power. Also
>>> >
>>> > James Risen is working now for the Intercept and recently posted 2 stories about Russia. The first is about CIA/NSA cyber weapons that went missing and seem to be in the hands of the Russians via a group called the Shadow Brokers. If that ain’t werd enough, Risen says US intel offered to buy them , mainly because the US agencies don’t know how much was taken and want to know the extent of the damage. The Russians wanted to throw in damaging info on Trump but the agencies which had sent money to Germany then backed off, possibly to avoid the political repercussions  of processing Trump info with CIA head Pompeo, a  Trump loyalist.
>>> >
>>> > Now it turns out some of the files in question have been sent to the NYT( Trump files  or cyber spy files is not clear). If they are Trump files and there is some way of the NYT confirming the validity of any of the information this may be the next big story.
>>> >
>>> > So why would Russia now try to get Trump in trouble? Disinformation? Regrets about Trump? Restore friendlier relations?
>>> >
>>> > The other Risen story  came out the day before the Mueller announcement and makes it clear Risen thinks the evidence that Russia hacked the DNC files is very conclusive. It seemed like very strong evidence to me to me despite my skepticism about one part where the Russian operative in charge of the operation may be a US double agent and the fact that the DNC servers were never examined by the FBI. Holy shit it just keeps getting weirder.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -
>>> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>> >
>>> 
>>> -
>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
> 
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