M & D Group Read (cont)

Jochen Stremmel jstremmel at gmail.com
Thu Jan 11 02:10:55 CST 2018 

I'm a bit prejudiced, I confess, because the German, well, Austrian writer
I studied most closely – some say the greatest German satirist, if not
worldwide –, the author of The Last Days of Mankind, was also a tireless
proofreader. He did put emphasis on hyphenation – sometimes from one page
to another. He took meticulous care of the typographic form of his texts.
(There's more, much more.) And when I first read Pynchon more than 40 years
ago what occurred to me was that he must be a meticulous proofreader, too.
The number of typos in his books is much lower than with most of his
contemporaries. And I thought that such a writer-reader can decide, while
adding and cutting in the galleys, what he puts on a certain page.

The first edition is enough for that. Treating further ones and paperbacks
with the same attention would be too much, something an anal retentive
character in a novel might do.

2018-01-10 23:24 GMT+01:00 Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>:

> Also true.
>
> On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 5:22 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't buy the pagination theory either, for the reasons you cite.
>> Also, if it were true, it would fall apart in any editions beyond the first
>> one.
>>
>> David Morris
>>
>>
>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free.
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>>
>> On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 3:31 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, I'm going to push back on the pagination possibility. We know that
>>> some of his books, M & D and Against the Day most memorably were
>>> being proofed, self-copyedited and corrected from proofs 'up until the
>>> last minute' as the phrase goes.
>>> Which would mean all pages after additional words were added (or cut)
>>> would start to change, have an effect on, usually the whole pagination
>>> set-up.
>>>
>>> Yes, it is possible, usually, that a typesetter could redo enough other
>>> lines on pages to enable certain items on certain pages to be on some
>>> symbolic
>>> page BUT I do not buy it here for M & D and with the famous citations re
>>> AtD, I think TRP just found them after production and played with them
>>> for marketing jive reasons....in fact, as another joke about NOT reading
>>> what is in front of us, the text.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 2:43 PM, Jochen Stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What a wonderful fitting quote: yes, a God- (capped with Nick's
>>>> reasoning) like tale-telling circle Pynchon is drawing here, and there,
>>>> too.
>>>>
>>>> And yes, he seems to take pagination as seriously as his paragraphs.
>>>>
>>>> 2018-01-10 19:22 GMT+01:00 Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> "Voice unlocaliz'd" is also, I think, a yoo-hoo (you-who?) from TRP,
>>>>> whose narrative voices move with unique and subtle variety into and out of
>>>>> characters' consciousness -- freely in GR and AtD, more pinned to
>>>>> Cherrycoke and other within-the-novel narrators here. As one of those old
>>>>> Nicks said: "an infinite circle whose center is everywhere and whose
>>>>> circumference is nowhere."
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 12:57 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow. Perfect  quote to provide contrast between edged, bordered,
>>>>>> localized  and myterious, unlocalized, radiant  center.  What is the
>>>>>> voice?. Conscience? Spirit? Deity? Dragon wisdom?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This statement comes after Mason wonders about the consequences of
>>>>>> their borderline, whether  the good will outweigh the bad. The quote
>>>>>> appears to come from the duck but is sandwiched  without quote marks
>>>>>> between  the Ducks quoted response: ‘Wonder, that’s all?…"What about care
>>>>>> don’t you care?” The “one of the Enigmata…” statement becomes structurally
>>>>>> a dislocated example of what it is saying.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is the appearance of this intervention of unlocalized voice on page
>>>>>> 666 satiric and light or a reference to the war between the NT book of
>>>>>> revelation Beast( having the number 666) and the risen Christ? P seems to
>>>>>> take pagination seriously but???
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pushing the idea a bit, but well within the frequent role of
>>>>>> spiritual themes in M&D is the fact that Jesus in the NT frequently
>>>>>> challenges artificial lines including the authority of the Torah: “ You
>>>>>> have heard it said by them of old an eye for…….but I say “   “ It is not
>>>>>> what goes into the mouth that defiles.. but what comes from the heart..”
>>>>>> 'Beware the scribes and Pharisees who bind heavy burdens but don’t stoop
>>>>>> to…’
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > On Jan 8, 2018, at 2:55 PM, Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > "One of the Enigmata of the Invisible World, is how a Voice
>>>>>> unlocaliz’d may yet act powerfully as a moral Center." (666)
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 12:32 PM, Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> > Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:00:35 -0500 (EST)
>>>>>> > From: Paul Mackin
>>>>>> > To:   pynchon-l@[omitted]
>>>>>> > Subject: The E-word
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Below are my notes on the occurence
>>>>>> >  of "edge" in M&D.
>>>>>> > Have no way of knowing how much underreporting there is.
>>>>>> > I read the book from start to finish and made a note
>>>>>> > whenever the word jumped out at me. As far as the most common
>>>>>> > usage of the word is concerned it would seem if anything that
>>>>>> > P is quite reticent, i.e., "edge" would occur with greater
>>>>>> > frequency  in average writing. However P's exotic usage of the
>>>>>> > word seems ABOVE average in frequency. This is just gut reaction. I
>>>>>> > haven't done any analysis.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >                       P.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 10  It took me till I was lying among he Rats and Vermin, upon the
>>>>>> freezing
>>>>>> > edge of a Future invisible, to understand that my name had never
>>>>>> been my own,__
>>>>>> > 24  How is he  suppossed to ignore this pure Edge of blood-love?
>>>>>> > 34  --the Cold of apprpaching Night carrying an edge, the
>>>>>> possiblity that
>>>>>> > by
>>>>>> > Morning the Weather will be quite brisk indeed . . .
>>>>>> > 62   Somehwat as his Neighbors each strenuous Sunday profers belief
>>>>>> in the
>>>>>> > Great Struggle at the End of the World
>>>>>> > 93   Briefly we behold the gray edge of a cloud of despair . . .
>>>>>> > 110  Rol-ling out the Elkdge-ware Ro-od,--
>>>>>> > 121  'Tis the British Way to take the extra step that may one day
>>>>>> give us an
>>>>>> > Edge when we need one
>>>>>> > 137  "What?" Mason begins to edge toward the Tent opening.
>>>>>> > 132 Maskelyne's voice, in such times of stress, edges toward a
>>>>>> throat-bas'd
>>>>>> > Soprano
>>>>>> > 160  He was quite distraugh, and but a pace or two from the Edge of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> > precipice.
>>>>>> > 171  She put upon her R the same vigorous Edge, as his father on a
>>>>>> difficult
>>>>>> > day,--
>>>>>> > 172 Maskelyne's Observing Suit is edging into Visability.
>>>>>> > 219  Over Wearside, here at Nightfall, exactly upon this Edge
>>>>>> between sunlight too bright to see much by and . . .
>>>>>> > 264 "My point exactly!" cries Ethelmer, who had been edging toward
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> > Spirits, mindful that at some point he shall have to edge past his
>>>>>> cousin
>>>>>> > Tenebrae.
>>>>>> > 271  is slowly absorb'd into a mirthful Cloud of tartan-edg'd
>>>>>> Emerald
>>>>>> > Green and luminous Coral Taffeta.
>>>>>> > 273  . . . sentimental ever held back even at the Edge of breaking
>>>>>> forth, in
>>>>>> > Fragments, as Glass breaks.
>>>>>> > 309  . . . the dogs run obssessibely to and fro, all 'round the
>>>>>> Edges,
>>>>>> > faces a-twist with Efforts to understand
>>>>>> > 324  by which if he kept to a Fiduciary Edge of Right Procedure, he
>>>>>> might
>>>>>> > profit, whilst retaining his Sanity.
>>>>>> > 329 . . . will have found its way by the poundful up the nostrils
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> > into the brains of these by then alert youths, lending a feverish
>>>>>> edge
>>>>>> > to all they  speak and do.
>>>>>> > 337  . . . suggesting locating the exact center of New Castle by
>>>>>> taking
>>>>>> > a sheet of paper showing a map of the Town, trimming 'round the
>>>>>> edges
>>>>>> > til only the Town remains, . . .
>>>>>> > 338  . . . , but fifteen years ago in the era of Don Vicente Lopez,
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> > was an apprehenisve Edge in this Town as soon as the Sun went down,
>>>>>> > that . . .
>>>>>> > 345 He sets his Lips as for a conventional, or Toroidal,
>>>>>> Smoke_Ring, but out
>>>>>> > instead comes a Ring like a Length of Ribbon clos'd in a Circle,
>>>>>> with a
>>>>>> > single Twist in it, possessing thereby but one Side and one Edge .
>>>>>> . .
>>>>>> > (elipsis in  original)
>>>>>> > 354  Then one has Mr. Edgewise . . . . (eilips in orig.)
>>>>>> > 383  A close observer, did one attend, might see him begin to
>>>>>> flicker
>>>>>> > 'round the edges.
>>>>>> > 387  Taking what seems far too long, he peers up and down the newly
>>>>>> > glitt'ring Edge, . . .
>>>>>> > 387  She is so flabber-gasting this Macaroni with it that he seems
>>>>>> to fall
>>>>>> > into a contemplative Daze before the deep Undulations, a Dreamer at
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> > Edge of the Sea.
>>>>>> > 387  I am become a Target for his Instruments edg'd and pointed.
>>>>>> > 395  There is an Edge to Young Romance, this year, that none of
>>>>>> those
>>>>>> > testing its Sharpness may recoginize, quite yet.
>>>>>> > 396  Three young Ladies are peeping 'round the 'Door-way, like
>>>>>> shorebirds
>>>>>> > at the edge of the Water, stepping nicely in and out of that Aura of
>>>>>> > Tobacco-Smoke that Men for centluries have understood keeps women
>>>>>> away
>>>>>> > as well as were they Bug
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 401  We've seen 'em all, all manner of Traveler, saints and
>>>>>> sinners, green
>>>>>> > and season'd some who could teach Eels to wriggle and some who were
>>>>>> pure
>>>>>> > fiduciary Edge, and I'll tell you, this one . . . I don't know.
>>>>>> > 403  The Telescpe stands in its own Window'd Observatory at the Top
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> > the House, before it the Edge of the River, . . .
>>>>>> > 406  The tone balanc'd upon a Blade's Edge, between Pity and
>>>>>> Contempt.
>>>>>> > 415 Whereupon a golden Edge of Pleasure proceeds to bisect him
>>>>>> upwardly
>>>>>> > all the way from his Ballocks to his heart, which these days is a
>>>>>> > lengthy journey.
>>>>>> > 416 advised by friend and enemy that his only decent course would
>>>>>> be to
>>>>>> > step off the Edge of the World.--
>>>>>> > 423 "What, this? 'tis a Tub, Sir." Hoping the Echo may give him and
>>>>>> Edge.
>>>>>> > 450  "Why are you all edging away from me like that?"
>>>>>> > 441  . . . curiously prostrated before the chunk of Rose Quartz
>>>>>> where
>>>>>> > cross the Latitude of the south Edge of Philadelphia . . .
>>>>>> > 485  then returning to this Radiance that flares from behind edges
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> > Shapes uncertain,--
>>>>>> > 517  reaching with her arms, run to the roof's edge and into the
>>>>>> Air, . .
>>>>>> > 528  . . . tho their Wonderful Telegraph gives them in that Article
>>>>>> > an Edge over the rest of Christendom, . . .
>>>>>> > 545 .. .  for the struggle Zarpazo and I must enact upon the very
>>>>>> mortal
>>>>>> > Edge of this great Torrent of Sha,--
>>>>>> > 561  . . . then at the edges of my vision, Blurs appear'd, . . .
>>>>>> > 577 . . . Ev'rybody's feeling edgy.
>>>>>> > 589 --flowing up over the edge . . . indeed, it keeps coming for
>>>>>> longer
>>>>>> > than it should.
>>>>>> > 592  . . . with hundreds of firmly attach'd sword-quality Blades,
>>>>>> whose
>>>>>> > hone edges flicker with sanguinary light.
>>>>>> > 594  looking for someone who can help him out of the edg'd ,and now
>>>>>> > perhaps even venomous, iron weapon he is wearing.
>>>>>> > 597  The breeze has a cold edge.
>>>>>> > 601  Yet removing Trees to create a pair of perfectly straight
>>>>>> Edges,
>>>>>> > is to invite Sha, . . .
>>>>>> > 638  form up at the western edge of town, . . .
>>>>>> > 650 --thro' some Energy  unknown, ever are we haunted by the Edge
>>>>>> > so precise, so near.
>>>>>> > 553  as if they liv'd at the edge of some great lighted
>>>>>> Sky-Structure,
>>>>>> > 692  Smugglers of Tobacco, Dye-stuffs, and edg'd Implements flee
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> > Storage-Cabins in the middle of the night,
>>>>>> > 697  at which point the Enterpriser has edg'd his way as far as the
>>>>>> door.
>>>>>> > 704  saw at the edges of Rooms from the corners of Eyes, shouted to
>>>>>> up
>>>>>> > or down a Visto.
>>>>>> > 746  As if here, at the Edge of the World,
>>>>>> > 752  The Fret has gather'd in the waste places, cross'd them, and
>>>>>> come
>>>>>> > to the Edge of the Town.
>>>>>> > 754 Busy withd rebellion, America drew back toward the edges of
>>>>>> Dixon's
>>>>>> > Frame, where the shadows gather'd.
>>>>>> > 758  and so she turn'd terrible, as she had ever been a shadow's
>>>>>> Edge away
>>>>>> > from doing anyway.
>>>>>> > 766  At the last of the Day-light, providentially, at the Edge of
>>>>>> York,
>>>>>> > they smell wood-smoke with a sensible Fat Component,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 4:42 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> > in the chapters around the LED, there are lots of
>>>>>> > animal references. Ape. The LED lusting after blood
>>>>>> > at Cock-Fights. "How is he supposed to ignore this Edge of
>>>>>> blood-love?"--another Bleeding Edge allusion
>>>>>> > and the edge itself--not around the edges as Joseph recently noted
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> > is another hard geometric bad shit trope in Pynchon.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > "Back at the Cock-Fights", Fender-Belly Bodine.....I seem to just
>>>>>> now notice that the Cock-Fights were ongoing
>>>>>> > fictionally in the whole chapter...a backdrop of the whole LED
>>>>>> section....
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > There are the lines about the LED being like a human.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > In the wake of the Age of Reason, with the LED as the synecdoche,
>>>>>> > it seems Pynchon wants to remind us--delightfully, of course, yet
>>>>>> fully---that we
>>>>>> > are still animals, enjoying Cock-Fights---"that Substance which we
>>>>>> are not
>>>>>> > supposed to acknowledge drips and flies 'ev'rywhere.." Humans, like
>>>>>> the LED,
>>>>>> > will not acknowledge the blood upon which their lives rest.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > In a notional associative way, I remember that luxury liner in AtD
>>>>>> which is also
>>>>>> > a battleship albeit unknown to the luxury travelers.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > What was that line some Big Political Leader Guy said, last
>>>>>> century, when asked
>>>>>> > about the salutary effects of The Enlightenment on the world?
>>>>>> > "I'm still waiting to see it." (very paraphrased and shaky memory)
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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