Drugless Paths to the Mystical Experience

[Smoke Teff]

Thanks all for contributing to this. It’s been a great education already, and a nice way of getting to know you. 

> On Jun 1, 2018, at 5:53 AM, Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Doubt is a good motivator for investigation.
> 
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 10:47 PM, Jochen Stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> I doubt that She said she said could have been written with mind training
>> alone.
>> 
>> 2018-06-01 1:17 GMT+02:00 Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>:
>> 
>>> Ain't nowhere you can go with drugs that you can't get more genuinely and
>>> enduringly to with mind training.
>>> Well, except for the hallucinations, and those are hallucinations, not
>>> mystical experience.
>>> 
>>> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:32 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Smoke,
>>>> 
>>>> I think most teachers would disapprove of your seeking after "mystical
>>>> experiences."  But maybe you just are using the wrong terms.  If what
>>> you
>>>> want is an "experience,"  why not just use drugs?  The "without drugs"
>>> part
>>>> implies you want something more authentic, and thus more "true?"  This
>>>> brings on the subject of "mystical."   Here's Webster:
>>>> 
>>>> Definition of mystical
>>>> 1a *: *having a spiritual meaning or reality that is neither apparent to
>>>> the senses nor obvious to the intelligence
>>>> 
>>>>   - the mysticalfood of the sacrament
>>>> 
>>>> b *: *involving or having the nature of an individual's direct
>>> subjective
>>>> communion with God or ultimate reality
>>>> 
>>>>   - the mysticalexperience of the Inner Light
>>>> 
>>>> So the "mystical" implies a hidden realm/reality, and even more so
>>> Ultimate
>>>> Reality.  This subject can and does go on forever, so I'll just point
>>> you
>>>> to a website that provides interviews with people from MANY different
>>>> paths, many of whom have reached deep levels of spiritual
>>>> realization/experience.  Most of these paths agree that what most people
>>>> experience is an illusion or veil that can be seen through into a
>>>> multi-faceted deeper reality.
>>>> 
>>>> Buddha at the Gas Pump:
>>>> https://batgap.com/
>>>> 
>>>> I experienced a Kundalini awakening over six years ago, but I didn't
>>> seek
>>>> it, nor did I know what it was at first (thank God for the internet).  I
>>>> was just trying to get myself stable via meditation, having been thrown
>>>> into emotional turmoil by the end of a 28 year marriage.  Then it
>>>> happened.  I didn't choose Kundalini.  It chose me.  I think that is a
>>>> common aspect of many mystical experiences.
>>>> 
>>>> David Morris
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 1:38 PM, Smoke Teff <smoketeff at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> The value of mushrooms has not depreciated in my mind (though many of
>>> my
>>>>> psychedelic experiences before doing an ayahuasca ceremony do seem
>>>> somewhat
>>>>> like a child tinkering with an elementary spiritual chemistry set,
>>>> without
>>>>> having even read the instructions).
>>>>> 
>>>>> But I’m interested in getting there mostly with the body technology I
>>> was
>>>>> given—want to cultivate a path I can replicate in most/any environs
>>>>> 
>>>>> Fasting and sleep deprivation have been useful in the past seem like
>>> they
>>>>> involve unnecessary suffering, especially for a regular practice that
>>>> will
>>>>> integrate with the rest of my life at this moment—and they associate
>>> too
>>>>> closely to me with other familiar ways of being
>>>>> 
>>>>> Art gets me a decent part of the way sometimes
>>>>> 
>>>>> I know at least Morris will have some kundalini to tell me about. I’m
>>>>> thinking of things more along those lines.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Breathing, movement, meditation
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On May 31, 2018, at 12:31 PM, Glenn fuller <
>>> glennfuller at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Fasting and Sleep Deprivation.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Thursday, May 31, 2018 10:20 AM, Allan Balliett <
>>>>> allan.balliett at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Convince yourself that ‘shrooms aren’t a drug!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Are you reading the new Pollan?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ALLAN in WV, where the patties are in bloom
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:59 PM Smoke Teff <smoketeff at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Soliciting recommendations and favorites
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