Pynchon's Russia--US

Fri Feb 1 05:59:56 CST 2019

"America, when will you look at yourself through the grave."

"America, you made me want to be a saint."

                      Two near-sublime lines, I say, like I'm somebody.

On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 6:45 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:

> This is Ginsberg's line about the bad grammar, talking down, seemingly
> Negro-parody-like lines:
> "America this is the impression I get from looking in the television set."
>
> Not too bad imho, about the vast wasteland of TV and manufactured 'foreign
> policy' consent, the massest
> mass media of the time. When Amos & Andy and other African-American
> stereotypes filled TV. See Lil Rascals' cast as well.
>
> I like how he writes "lookin' in", not "at'. The crystal ball of America.
>
> On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 3:27 AM <jbloocher at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I was actually really disappointed reading the Ginsberg. I haven’t read
>> any since I was a late teenager and of course had a passion for such
>> things, or rather he was on my list to ‘complete’. Reading this now seems
>> hackneyed and trying. And I don’t even like the sound of the words. I do
>> feel that Thomas is right in terms of him speaking with the voice of the
>> uneducated (I can’t say with regards to African American lingo, as I am
>> really clueless). From an emotional and personal perspective it grates as I
>> can’t think of a people or place I love more than Russians and Russia (for
>> reasons that would take me so very long to put down.)
>>
>> Blooch
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On 1 Feb 2019, at 05:58, Jochen Stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Re him/her: "I will continue like Henry Ford my strophes are as
>> individual
>> > as his automobiles more so they’re all different sexes."
>> >
>> > Reading the poem I get the impression that he was high while he wrote it
>> > and didn't change anything afterwards, after January 17, 1956.
>> >
>> > Thanks for it anyway, Thomas!
>> >
>> >> Am Fr., 1. Feb. 2019 um 02:45 Uhr schrieb Joseph Tracy <
>> brook7 at sover.net>:
>> >>
>> >> OK, I’ll bite. The general impression P gives of Russians is cynical
>> >> acceptance of corruption where resistance takes the form of monkey
>> >> wrenching and watching out for yourself and those you care about.
>> There is
>> >> a certain feeling of waiting for big systems to fail even more
>> completely
>> >> apart, but only  the barest hints of  hope for positive revolutionary
>> >> changes, and I may be imagining that. Could be interesting to look more
>> >> closely at the texts themselves. There is a weird consistency between
>> the
>> >> Russians in GR and BE, no?
>> >>  The Russians I am closest to are different. Very honest, good to their
>> >> employees, believers in democracy, intensely family oriented, but lots
>> of
>> >> individual differences. I think P leaves out the weird influence of
>> Russian
>> >> Orthodoxy on many Russsians in the Russians he chooses to personify.
>> >>> On Jan 31, 2019, at 3:42 PM, Thomas Eckhardt <
>> >> thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> And, of course, in GR...
>> >>>
>> >>>> Am 31.01.2019 um 21:41 schrieb Mark Kohut:
>> >>>> And in AtD....
>> >>>> On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 3:20 PM Thomas Eckhardt <
>> >> thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de <mailto:thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de>>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>   The ending of VL comes to mind. And, of course, the Russians in BE.
>> >>>>   Could be interesting to have a closer look.
>> >>>>   Here is Allen Ginsberg on the subject:
>> >>>>   "America you don’t really want to go to war.
>> >>>>   America its them bad Russians.
>> >>>>   Them Russians them Russians and them Chinamen. And them Russians.
>> >>>>   The Russia wants to eat us alive. The Russia’s power mad. She wants
>> >> to
>> >>>>   take our cars from out our garages.
>> >>>>   Her wants to grab Chicago. Her needs a Red Reader’s Digest. Her
>> wants
>> >>>>   our auto plants in Siberia. Him big bureaucracy running our
>> >>>>   fillingstations.
>> >>>>   That no good. Ugh. Him make Indians learn read. Him need big black
>> >>>>   niggers. Hah. Her make us all work sixteen hours a day. Help.
>> >>>>   America this is quite serious.
>> >>>>   America this is the impression I get from looking in the television
>> >> set.
>> >>>>   America is this correct?"
>> >>>>   https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/49305/america-56d22b41f119f
>> >>>>   (Why the peculiar grammar? At the beginning, with "Them Russians",
>> it
>> >>>>   appears to be a satirical jibe at not particularly bright
>> >> US-Americans
>> >>>>   watching the news on the TV set, but "That no good" is Black
>> >>>>   Vernacular,
>> >>>>   no? And "Her"?)
>> >>>>   For those in the Midwest: Keep warm!
>> >>>>>   Am 28.01.2019 um 12:43 schrieb Mark Kohut:
>> >>>>> First, sorry that this scan of the picture is sideways....I
>> >>>>   thought I could
>> >>>>> turn it right side up but I don't know how.Just turn your head a
>> >>>>   little--or
>> >>>>> your phone/computer, haha.
>> >>>>>  Second, remember *The Realist *rag?---if you are old enough.
>> >>>>> Third and most substantively, and the reason I scanned this,
>> >>>>   think about P
>> >>>>> and his oeuvre-length geopolitical doubling of the USA and
>> >>>>   Russia-- and
>> >>>>> here, in 1962, The Cold War about to have its hottest
>> >>>>   moments....and what a
>> >>>>> cartoon, eh?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> From a paperback of the sixties, THE NEW RADICALS, a collection.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Please open the attached document. It was scanned and sent to you
>> >>>>   using a
>> >>>>> Xerox WorkCentre. For more information on Xerox products and
>> >>>>   solutions,
>> >>>>> please visit http://www.xerox.com.
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> >>>>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> >>
>> >> --
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>> >>
>> > --
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>>
>