Also, just fyi

[David Morris]

I love your use of "bespoke."  A common British term, but unknown to me
until watching UK's versions of HGTV.

David Morris


On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 6:57 PM Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Actually, just to address one of your errors in the above screed, no
> "CIA propaganda" was used to justify the invasion of Iraq. In fact,
> institutionally, the CIA was against invasion. That's why Dick Cheney
> and his neocons had to create a bespoke intelligence agency (The
> Office of Special Plans) in order to "stovepipe" shoddy intel past
> State and the CIA and into the Executive (and then, ultimately, into
> the media, as pro-war propaganda).
>
> So your (and a LOT of people's) reflexive anti-CIA mindset in regards
> to Iraq is fundamentally and historically WRONG.
>
> Cheers,
> YOPJ
>
> <
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> >
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>
> On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 7:13 PM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
> >
> > First of all. You wildly exaggerate the influence of Russians. These
> "rallies" were on the order of dozens from what I have read. The memes that
> have been published are pathetic. Meanwhile there were the facebook
> facilitated memes personally tailored to the user by Cambridge Analytica on
> a massive scale. They spread many lies and far more effectively than the
> Russians.  The emails are Hilary’s own fault and are not lies but the truth
> exposed of her hypocrisy and condescending snobbery. Meanwhile the US
> spends billions to influence elections and prop up dictators. We boasted
> openly of bringing the drunkard shithead Yeltsin to power. We help the
> Saudis bomb and starve Yemenis who clearly have a legitimate grievance and
> wide popular support for their attempted revolution against the Saudi
> approved ruler. The NY Times helped foster a murderous war in Iraq based on
> CIA propaganda.This was far more deastating to human lives than Russian
> memes on Facebook. Obama/Hillary approved of an outrageous coup against an
> elected reformer in Honduras( the poorest and most US compliant state in
> Central America); a coup opposed by the OAS. The results were a wave of
> crime by police and Criminal gangs which Hondurans are now fleeing to be
> met by an ultra militarized America.
> >  Then we are just shocked and morally outraged that someone else might
> play this nasty  game.  I fully agree that trying to fuck with somebody
> else’s democratic processes is an outrage. It is an outrage most
> exemplified in recent history by the United States. So let’s lead first and
> foremost by example. Let’s truly stand for free and fair democratic process
> and a free, diverse press. Let’s stop defending the murderously
> hypocritical policies of both parties and admit theat the problem is far
> deeper than Trump. Let’s rein in the deep state and insist on greater
> trasparency cositet with the Constitution. As Glenn Greenwald said, ‘Trump
> is America’s Id’. He is the personification of a Greedy Conceited Bully
> with too much Power.
> >   The Trump problem is not located in Russia. The Trump problem is right
> here in America.
> >
> > > On Jan 6, 2019, at 4:10 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > The US President is far worse than "a clown", I suggest, to a man who
> > > believes in the right words used in the right way. (But it may be just
> a
> > > Plist throwaway word although I remember when I was judged for the same
> > > tossed-off verbiage).
> > >
> > > I will send more on Russian interference in the US election of 2016,
> the
> > > best work done on it, when I get it together but perhaps the case can
> > > be made with simple logic.
> > >
> > > Tens of millions, maybe a hundred million Americans were reached, many
> > > 'influenced' by actions that the Russian hackers did on Facebook, on
> > > twitter in 2016.
> > > One hacker trick was to go onto Facebook and schedule a Trump rally,
> place
> > > and time, and others would 'join' and build and spread the enthusiasm
> and
> > > PRESTO, there would be that rally, with the bot that started it now
> even
> > > known about. Who can measure the effect in solidifying minds and
> bringing
> > > out the vote?
> > >
> > > (In my state, a group movement to drive a polluting multinational out
> of
> > > the County
> > > rose to thousands faster than I can read and at meetings and rallies,
> > > almost no one knows who started the group. Natural leaders emerge and
> > > continue)
> > >
> > > Couple the above with the fact that Trump won with fewer than 100,000
> votes
> > > out of three states, three bot-targeted states. Donald Trump will be
> > > president thanks to 80,000 people in three states---Wa Po.
> > >
> > > We won't ever know what the Russians made happen at the US polls---and
> I
> > > did not even go into anti-Hillary efforts by the Russians, which might
> have
> > > kept the low turnout even lower.
> > >
> > > To be so dismissive of the possible Russian effects on these United
> States,
> > > leads me to distrust many "political" judgments about the US of those
> who
> > > are.
> > >
> > > As TRP said of the guy who argued in that NYC rag that he was J.D.
> > > Salinger, "I didn't know of this newspaper but we need all the news we
> can
> > > get. [Fed his jab at
> > > the NYT's "All the news that's fit to print" [see *Anniversaries *as
> > > counter-exemplum] ..."Keep Trying", he urged.
> > > --
> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >
> > --
> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> --
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>