Re: BEg2 chapter 5 - “Winnie List”
Neal Fultz
nfultz at gmail.com
Thu Dec 9 21:05:24 UTC 2021
So I emailed the author of NetSlaves, this is what he wrote back:
> The real list was the WWWAC list.
> My co-author wrote about it: Ghost Sites of the Web: WWWAC.org is Dead (Does Anybody in NY Still Care?) (disobey.com)
> Thank you for asking,
And linking to -
https://www.disobey.com/ghostsites/2008/08/wwwacorg-is-dead-does-anybody-in-ny.html
So that means that Pynchon read NetSlaves, since that's the *only*
thing that called it the "Winnie list".
On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 11:31 PM Michael Bailey
<michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I mean, Jane’s story is a pretty good piece of short fiction, by my lights.
>
> A nice sidelight to BE, if not a partial source, as well.
>
> Ok, I’ll shut up about that now.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 10:36 PM Michael Bailey <
> michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > And yet I don’t mind.
> >
> > Slight bit different scenario would be they too were convinced by the
> > disobey/ Netslaves tale & wiki’d it in good faith; or were leaving a
> > breadcrumb to site of interest even if non-factual. For enthusiastic
> > fictioneers, *especially* if non-factual.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 7:37 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> All of that explains the length and details of the BE mini-spin-off
> >> fiction some one put on the Pynchonwiki. Only a devoted story teller would
> >> have gone to such lengths. And they had you hook line& sinker. 🤡
> >>
> >> Bravo to them
> >>
> >> On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 7:24 PM Michael Bailey <
> >> michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I think the books Netslaves & Netslaves 2, which spun off from the
> >>> now-defunct site netslaves.com (referenced often on disobey.com) have
> >>> some credibility.
> >>>
> >>> I remember hearing good things about Netslaves at the time, but the name
> >>> was offputting.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Authors have good vitas, one of them worked at Pathfinder.
> >>>
> >>> Bill Lessard has written for The Industry Standard and CNET. He has
> >>> worked for Prodigy, Time Warner's Pathfinder, and numerous failed startups.
> >>> With Steve Baldwin, he is the coauthor of NetSlaves (McGraw-Hill) and
> >>> cofounder of NetSlaves.com. He lives in Yonkers, New York. Steve Baldwin
> >>> has been an editor at PC Magazine, Computer Shopper, and Pathfinder and
> >>> developed "Ghost Sites of the Web," an acclaimed e-zine devoted to failed
> >>> Web sites. With Bill Lessard, he is the coauthor of NetSlaves (McGraw-Hill)
> >>> and cofounder of NetSlaves.com. He lives in New York City.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> https://www.amazon.com/Net-Slaves-True-Tales-Working/dp/0071352430
> >>>
> >>> https://www.amazon.com/Net-Slaves-2-0-Tales-Surviving/dp/1581152841
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 7:03 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Are you saying Jane existed? Or that anything about that story (beside
> >>>> an error in an OJReport) is true?
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 6:57 PM Michael Bailey <
> >>>> michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Jane’s story culminates in her being the one at (name changed in
> >>>>> story) Time Warner Pathfinder to put the “OJ Guilty” misprint up -
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.disobey.com/ghostsites/pathfindermuseum/hello/1322882/1024/pathfinder6-2005.06.20-12.09.56.jpg
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That brief error did happen.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Does that prove there was a Winnie? Of course not.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Is Jane’s story redolent with the flavor of dotcom contractors? Imho,
> >>>>> yes.
> >>>>> Is BE redolent in a similar way at various places? I think so.
> >>>>> Does it improve the relishment of the story - yes.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Want a Zima?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 6:05 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Yes, I found the Brown reference. He coined the phrase and concept,
> >>>>>> but he never elaborated upon what it meant in any practical way. I t
> >>>>>> sounded cool, but that’s all it ever was, a cool idea without any real
> >>>>>> application.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> But you don’t think Jane’s story or anything about Winnie’s list on
> >>>>>> Pynchonwiki was real, do you? What you call early dotcom lore is probably
> >>>>>> a fiction made up after ATD was published, right?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 5:56 PM Michael Bailey <
> >>>>>> michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I appreciated the pointer to interesting early dotcom lore - &
> >>>>>>> possible source material for Pynchon: Jane’s story has the $30 an hour, the
> >>>>>>> Winnie list, &, seemed like, a couple other odds & ends that made it into
> >>>>>>> BE - never would’ve found it without trying to prove you wrong, David.
> >>>>>>> Thanks!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> It may not be as high flown as finding an IG Farben employee manual,
> >>>>>>> but there’s a little frisson at Jane’s Story as a possible source, isn’t
> >>>>>>> there?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Also, isn’t the Norman O Brown phrase you referenced the other day
> >>>>>>> “polymorphous perversity?”
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hope all your recuperating is going good!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 5:41 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I never thought Winnie’s list was anything other than a joke by
> >>>>>>>> Pynchon. It’s not like I complained about it.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The crazy thing is how far someone on the Pynchonwiki went to
> >>>>>>>> “document” its reality. But what really made that suspicious was the
> >>>>>>>> length of Jane’s Story, and, of course it’s non-existence in any trace on
> >>>>>>>> the web.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 5:33 PM Michael Bailey <
> >>>>>>>> michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> BE is a work of fiction so it’s okay to have fictitious references
> >>>>>>>>> (imho)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> It’d be cool if employers thought so too (-;
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> --
> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
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