Re: BEg2 chapter 5 - “Winnie List”

Thu Dec 9 21:08:57 UTC 2021

Neal,

kudo and kudos....you're good.

Thanks,

mark

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 4:06 PM Neal Fultz <nfultz at gmail.com> wrote:

> So I emailed the author of NetSlaves, this is what he wrote back:
>
> > The real list was the WWWAC list.
> > My co-author wrote about it: Ghost Sites of the Web: WWWAC.org is Dead
> (Does Anybody in NY Still Care?) (disobey.com)
> > Thank you for asking,
>
> And linking to -
>
> https://www.disobey.com/ghostsites/2008/08/wwwacorg-is-dead-does-anybody-in-ny.html
>
> So that means that Pynchon read NetSlaves, since that's the *only*
> thing that called it the "Winnie list".
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 11:31 PM Michael Bailey
> <michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I mean, Jane’s story is a pretty good piece of short fiction, by my
> lights.
> >
> > A nice sidelight to BE, if not a partial source, as well.
> >
> > Ok, I’ll shut up about that now.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 10:36 PM Michael Bailey <
> > michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > And yet I don’t mind.
> > >
> > > Slight bit different scenario would be they too were convinced by the
> > > disobey/ Netslaves tale & wiki’d it in good faith; or were leaving a
> > > breadcrumb to site of interest even if non-factual. For enthusiastic
> > > fictioneers, *especially* if non-factual.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 7:37 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> All of that explains the length and details of the BE mini-spin-off
> > >> fiction some one put on the Pynchonwiki.  Only a devoted story teller
> would
> > >> have gone to such lengths.  And they had you hook line& sinker.  🤡
> > >>
> > >> Bravo to them
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 7:24 PM Michael Bailey <
> > >> michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> I think the books Netslaves & Netslaves 2, which spun off from the
> > >>> now-defunct site netslaves.com (referenced often on disobey.com)
> have
> > >>> some credibility.
> > >>>
> > >>> I remember hearing good things about Netslaves at the time, but the
> name
> > >>> was offputting.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Authors have good vitas, one of them worked at Pathfinder.
> > >>>
> > >>> Bill Lessard has written for The Industry Standard and CNET. He has
> > >>> worked for Prodigy, Time Warner's Pathfinder, and numerous failed
> startups.
> > >>> With Steve Baldwin, he is the coauthor of NetSlaves (McGraw-Hill) and
> > >>> cofounder of NetSlaves.com. He lives in Yonkers, New York. Steve
> Baldwin
> > >>> has been an editor at PC Magazine, Computer Shopper, and Pathfinder
> and
> > >>> developed "Ghost Sites of the Web," an acclaimed e-zine devoted to
> failed
> > >>> Web sites. With Bill Lessard, he is the coauthor of NetSlaves
> (McGraw-Hill)
> > >>> and cofounder of NetSlaves.com. He lives in New York City.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> https://www.amazon.com/Net-Slaves-True-Tales-Working/dp/0071352430
> > >>>
> > >>> https://www.amazon.com/Net-Slaves-2-0-Tales-Surviving/dp/1581152841
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 7:03 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Are you saying Jane existed? Or that anything about that story
> (beside
> > >>>> an error in an OJReport) is true?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 6:57 PM Michael Bailey <
> > >>>> michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Jane’s story culminates in her being the one at (name changed in
> > >>>>> story) Time Warner Pathfinder to put the “OJ Guilty” misprint up -
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> https://www.disobey.com/ghostsites/pathfindermuseum/hello/1322882/1024/pathfinder6-2005.06.20-12.09.56.jpg
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> That brief error did happen.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Does that prove there was a Winnie? Of course not.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Is Jane’s story redolent with the flavor of dotcom contractors?
> Imho,
> > >>>>> yes.
> > >>>>> Is BE redolent in a similar way at various places? I think so.
> > >>>>> Does it improve the relishment of the story - yes.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Want a Zima?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 6:05 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Yes, I found the Brown reference.  He coined the phrase and
> concept,
> > >>>>>> but he never elaborated upon what it meant in any practical way.
> I t
> > >>>>>> sounded cool, but that’s all it ever was, a cool idea without any
> real
> > >>>>>> application.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> But you don’t think Jane’s story or anything about Winnie’s list
> on
> > >>>>>> Pynchonwiki was real, do you?  What you call early dotcom lore is
> probably
> > >>>>>> a fiction made up after ATD was published, right?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 5:56 PM Michael Bailey <
> > >>>>>> michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I appreciated the pointer to interesting early dotcom lore - &
> > >>>>>>> possible source material for Pynchon: Jane’s story has the $30
> an hour, the
> > >>>>>>> Winnie list, &, seemed like, a couple other odds & ends that
> made it into
> > >>>>>>> BE - never would’ve found it without trying to prove you wrong,
> David.
> > >>>>>>> Thanks!
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> It may not be as high flown as finding an IG Farben employee
> manual,
> > >>>>>>> but there’s a little frisson at Jane’s Story as a possible
> source, isn’t
> > >>>>>>> there?
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Also, isn’t the Norman O Brown phrase you referenced the other
> day
> > >>>>>>> “polymorphous perversity?”
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Hope all your recuperating is going good!
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 5:41 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com
> >
> > >>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> I never thought Winnie’s list was anything other than a joke by
> > >>>>>>>> Pynchon.  It’s not like I complained about it.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> The crazy thing is how far someone on the Pynchonwiki went to
> > >>>>>>>> “document” its reality.  But what really made that suspicious
> was the
> > >>>>>>>> length of Jane’s Story, and, of course it’s non-existence in
> any trace on
> > >>>>>>>> the web.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 5:33 PM Michael Bailey <
> > >>>>>>>> michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> BE is a work of fiction so it’s okay to have fictitious
> references
> > >>>>>>>>> (imho)
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> It’d be cool if employers thought so too (-;
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > --
> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> --
> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>