BEg2 Chap 8 Summary Part 1

Sat Dec 11 09:21:28 UTC 2021

No need to start with the dismissive words just because you do not agree.
The words are clear in themselves; equal in a simple summary to many of
yours. You just want more fleshing out, right? (Okay. and the next time you
tell me what I wrote has no meaning when the words are clear.  I'm outta
here. (not that that will matter nor you will care. Just saying. I'm doing
this in good faith as were you until....)

It means I see her as Pynchon saying she is out of it in her
understanding of what is happening worth marching for. She is March because
that is all she does. Otherwise her leftness is
as hypocritical---in what she puts herself out for---as all the rest of
what we learn about her. Co-op fights, personal interests is really all she
does in action that might change anything. And it changes her NY
living only for a few IF.......Shopping is what she really does. And talks
uselessly.  Old-fashioned lefty is in the text I suggest: "March's face
seemed to Maxine silvery at the edges, like some antique photograph" p.
54......There are no accidental smiles when geniuses write. Not her hair,
which could just be getting older but her face. The face of an antique not
someone in the present like Maxine; too ancient in understanding what is
really going on (as this novel is showing us).

I am reminded of Pynchon himself, decades earlier, writing about how active
protesting was not worth his time; I was reminded of Pynchon saying and
showing how the New Left of the sixties failed because it had.made no
connection with the working class---(I believe he said this in a
letter)---but it is all over Vineland in the showing. I am reminded of
Pynchon satirizing everything including Left demi-marxism; demi-'thinkers'
of everything. The man deeply indebted to Geo Orwell.

On Sat, Dec 11, 2021 at 3:58 AM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> Then again maybe March is Pynchon's way of satrizing the great american
> muddle in the middle. Ok Mark K , explain this to me: ” an one-fashioned
> leftie fool about this in the novel” …What the fuck does that mean?
>  I’m sure , and it’s well known, that Pynchon consults Morris after every
> paragraph he writes, but I don’t.
>
>
> > On Dec 11, 2021, at 3:33 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > And I suggest March K is presented as an one-fashioned leftie fool about
> this in the novel.....One of Pynchon's ways of satirizing lefties and some
> of their conspiracy theories....such as WTC7...Pynchon is too smart not to
> know all that Morris just wrote down....and also observant enough to know
> how conspiracy paranoia has moved Left (in many ways) since Hofstadter's
> seminal analysis....
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 10, 2021 at 10:00 PM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net <mailto:
> brook7 at sover.net>> wrote:
> > One might also guess that Pynchon is using the scene on the roof of the
> Deseret as stand in for certain impossible to dismiss problems. Impossible
> in this case to dismiss within the world of  the novel since there is
> video. Obviously the Deseret scene is a fiction and not intended to suggest
> a real event.  But the parts of the actual event that troubled people most
> intensely, like WTC7 with the engineering question and the multiple first
> responder reports of explosions, had a similar impact on many in the public
> as the video published by March K in the novel, solidifying a profound
> mistrust of the media/government narrative.
> >
> > Anyway I have already gone too far with interrupting our look at chapter
> 8. I am not ready to go futher down this particular rabbit hole yet, depite
> being born in the Chinese year of the rabbit.  That last was not a plea or
> ploy to have the last word but a warning to myself.  Let others do as they
> will I have said too much already.
> >
> > > On Dec 10, 2021, at 4:55 PM, Huebschraeuber <
> huebschraeuber at protonmail.com <mailto:huebschraeuber at protonmail.com>>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > It is clear that one of Pynchon's sources for 9/11 is Michael Ruppert's
> > > "Crossing the Rubicon" because the story of the Israeli microchip can
> be
> > > found there, and only there (apart from Ruppert's online magazine "From
> > > the Wilderness" where it was published first).
> > >
> > > This also helps to explain why the biggest, let us say, mystery of 9/11
> > > is not mentioned in BE: The free-fall collapse of WTC7. It is not
> > > mentioned by Ruppert, iirc.
> > >
> > > "The principal conclusion of our study is that fire did not cause the
> > > collapse of WTC 7 on 9/11, contrary to the conclusions of NIST and
> > > private engineering firms that studied the collapse. The secondary
> > > conclusion of our study is that the collapse of WTC 7 was a global
> > > failure involving the near-simultaneous failure of every column in the
> > > building."
> > >
> > > https://ine.uaf.edu/wtc7 <https://ine.uaf.edu/wtc7>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Am 10.12.2021 um 20:28 schrieb Joseph Tracy:
> > >> “Which you think is more serious than simple fraud. What could be
> that big of a deal?”
> > >>  “You’re the expert, Maxine. If it was a classic fraud haven, Grand
> Cayman or whatever, it’d be one thing. But this is the Mideast, and
> somebody’s going to way too much trouble to keep secrets, as if Ice or
> somebody in his shop ain’t just squirreling it away but bankrolling
> something, something big and invisible—”  BE pg 83
> > >>
> > >>  I will probably get slammed for this but ….Let us suppose  or at
> least ask iourselves if this secretive movement of money  centered on Dubai
> is or could be something real and related to 9-11.  Is it something that
> appears  elsewhere? Could Pynchon, who seems to have some interesting
> sources of hard-to-access information and research be using fiction to make
> suggestions about who might have been in on the 9-11 plan beside Salafists
> temporarily centered in Afghanistan?
> > >> Or is it a red herring? All I can say is by the time P wrote BE there
> had been a great deal of research into this event and to many people’s
> dissatisfaction, including family-members-of-victims  who were part of 9-11
> commission, many incriminating leads were abandoned due to the US’s
> friendly and lucrative relationship with Saudi Arabia  and the
> inconvenience of digging too deep into conflicting evidence regarding the
> mainstream narrative.
> > >> Dubai is a weird place, the international London/Switzerland of
> Arab/Islamic finance, a major world tourist destination and a safe haven
> for western interests, money operating in the Gulf. Its power and wealth
> have steadily increased since the gulf wars. If i recall, all the hijackers
> were either Saudis or UAE( Dubai).
> > >>
> > >> Would a high tech ’security” business be needed to facilitate hiding
> something this big, the movement of money, paying bribes, moving and
> silencing the right people, etc. ?  My own skepticism has a lot to do with
> how much the narrative was controlled in an event that left so many
> questions and loose ends. I don’t have a theory, but am unsatisfied with
> the dismissal of legitimate questions.
> > >>
> > >>  I can only say that it really seems to me that Pynchon too has
> questions about that narrative and has written what  seems like a goofy
> detective story spiced with dead-end paranoia  and a more obvious red
> herring ( the  Kennedy-esque rooftop event)to remind us that some serious
> questions that really do demand the deeepest and most thorough attempt at
> resolution have been buried, while horrifyingly misdirected wars have been
> pursued with no positive result.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>
> --
> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>