BEg2 Chap 8 Summary Part 1

Sat Dec 11 09:29:39 UTC 2021

I do not think March can be read as satirizing the "great american muddle
in the middle'--nice phrasing though---because she is not that. The muddled
middle of America never protests by marching
at all. She herself is not a muddled American in her own mind as presented
in the novel.

On Sat, Dec 11, 2021 at 3:58 AM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> Then again maybe March is Pynchon's way of satrizing the great american
> muddle in the middle. Ok Mark K , explain this to me: ” an one-fashioned
> leftie fool about this in the novel” …What the fuck does that mean?
>  I’m sure , and it’s well known, that Pynchon consults Morris after every
> paragraph he writes, but I don’t.
>
>
> > On Dec 11, 2021, at 3:33 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > And I suggest March K is presented as an one-fashioned leftie fool about
> this in the novel.....One of Pynchon's ways of satirizing lefties and some
> of their conspiracy theories....such as WTC7...Pynchon is too smart not to
> know all that Morris just wrote down....and also observant enough to know
> how conspiracy paranoia has moved Left (in many ways) since Hofstadter's
> seminal analysis....
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 10, 2021 at 10:00 PM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net <mailto:
> brook7 at sover.net>> wrote:
> > One might also guess that Pynchon is using the scene on the roof of the
> Deseret as stand in for certain impossible to dismiss problems. Impossible
> in this case to dismiss within the world of  the novel since there is
> video. Obviously the Deseret scene is a fiction and not intended to suggest
> a real event.  But the parts of the actual event that troubled people most
> intensely, like WTC7 with the engineering question and the multiple first
> responder reports of explosions, had a similar impact on many in the public
> as the video published by March K in the novel, solidifying a profound
> mistrust of the media/government narrative.
> >
> > Anyway I have already gone too far with interrupting our look at chapter
> 8. I am not ready to go futher down this particular rabbit hole yet, depite
> being born in the Chinese year of the rabbit.  That last was not a plea or
> ploy to have the last word but a warning to myself.  Let others do as they
> will I have said too much already.
> >
> > > On Dec 10, 2021, at 4:55 PM, Huebschraeuber <
> huebschraeuber at protonmail.com <mailto:huebschraeuber at protonmail.com>>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > It is clear that one of Pynchon's sources for 9/11 is Michael Ruppert's
> > > "Crossing the Rubicon" because the story of the Israeli microchip can
> be
> > > found there, and only there (apart from Ruppert's online magazine "From
> > > the Wilderness" where it was published first).
> > >
> > > This also helps to explain why the biggest, let us say, mystery of 9/11
> > > is not mentioned in BE: The free-fall collapse of WTC7. It is not
> > > mentioned by Ruppert, iirc.
> > >
> > > "The principal conclusion of our study is that fire did not cause the
> > > collapse of WTC 7 on 9/11, contrary to the conclusions of NIST and
> > > private engineering firms that studied the collapse. The secondary
> > > conclusion of our study is that the collapse of WTC 7 was a global
> > > failure involving the near-simultaneous failure of every column in the
> > > building."
> > >
> > > https://ine.uaf.edu/wtc7 <https://ine.uaf.edu/wtc7>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Am 10.12.2021 um 20:28 schrieb Joseph Tracy:
> > >> “Which you think is more serious than simple fraud. What could be
> that big of a deal?”
> > >>  “You’re the expert, Maxine. If it was a classic fraud haven, Grand
> Cayman or whatever, it’d be one thing. But this is the Mideast, and
> somebody’s going to way too much trouble to keep secrets, as if Ice or
> somebody in his shop ain’t just squirreling it away but bankrolling
> something, something big and invisible—”  BE pg 83
> > >>
> > >>  I will probably get slammed for this but ….Let us suppose  or at
> least ask iourselves if this secretive movement of money  centered on Dubai
> is or could be something real and related to 9-11.  Is it something that
> appears  elsewhere? Could Pynchon, who seems to have some interesting
> sources of hard-to-access information and research be using fiction to make
> suggestions about who might have been in on the 9-11 plan beside Salafists
> temporarily centered in Afghanistan?
> > >> Or is it a red herring? All I can say is by the time P wrote BE there
> had been a great deal of research into this event and to many people’s
> dissatisfaction, including family-members-of-victims  who were part of 9-11
> commission, many incriminating leads were abandoned due to the US’s
> friendly and lucrative relationship with Saudi Arabia  and the
> inconvenience of digging too deep into conflicting evidence regarding the
> mainstream narrative.
> > >> Dubai is a weird place, the international London/Switzerland of
> Arab/Islamic finance, a major world tourist destination and a safe haven
> for western interests, money operating in the Gulf. Its power and wealth
> have steadily increased since the gulf wars. If i recall, all the hijackers
> were either Saudis or UAE( Dubai).
> > >>
> > >> Would a high tech ’security” business be needed to facilitate hiding
> something this big, the movement of money, paying bribes, moving and
> silencing the right people, etc. ?  My own skepticism has a lot to do with
> how much the narrative was controlled in an event that left so many
> questions and loose ends. I don’t have a theory, but am unsatisfied with
> the dismissal of legitimate questions.
> > >>
> > >>  I can only say that it really seems to me that Pynchon too has
> questions about that narrative and has written what  seems like a goofy
> detective story spiced with dead-end paranoia  and a more obvious red
> herring ( the  Kennedy-esque rooftop event)to remind us that some serious
> questions that really do demand the deeepest and most thorough attempt at
> resolution have been buried, while horrifyingly misdirected wars have been
> pursued with no positive result.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>
> --
> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>