BEg2 Chap 8 Summary Part 1

Sun Dec 12 00:16:39 UTC 2021

Joseph,
Of course since you ignore and insult, why would you stay or get civil. And
I praised and ran with you more than once just on these posts and all who
read this saw it.
I'll let the Plisters judge whether your dismissiveness and insulting ways
are yours or mine on this read.

I do chapter Readings, Joseph, as we agreed were my thing and a good
thing....I read what I see as meanings, right or wrong or only partly
there.....
you can do all your chapter summaries while of course IGNORING possible
meanings I post..........many of them are in the wiki and in previous Group
Readings.

Again: to tell my "I don't like March" is to reduce me to you and stupid
reading and I resist it as long as I can type.

I'll continue for my own self and who knows who on the List may think I
offer something decent. I KNOW I know Pynchon's work and can show it in
every line. I have offered
much of this before and have had much consensual agreement or at least
possibility instead of insults.

Mark

On Sat, Dec 11, 2021 at 7:06 PM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> Mark Kohut
> This is a game I no longer wish to play. Your emails along with Morris’s
> will now be going in my trash. You don’t do chapter summaries so it won’t
> make no nevermind for the BE read. BUT, if any plister feels this is
> unbecoming of a group read host, please feel free to take the reins.
> Otherwise I will do my best to continue as long as there is participation.
>
> On Dec 11, 2021, at 4:26 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I just saw this and as usual you get me wrong, Joseph. .... You did not
> come to terms with what I wrote.....I "don't like" her.??!!!....like tea
> party socialites and so many in book clubs who want to "like' or can't help
> "disliking" characters.......I LIKE MARCH AS MUCH AS YOU DO, and Pynchon
> does----he created her sympathetically right on the page.......BUT he, not
> me, also saw her inadequacies and gave her larger meanings in the
> novel.......
>
> You are still awful to interact with, full of insults and inability to
> engage or prove your points as you tell others their points are
> "meaningless".
>
> Mark
> Your sentence that I quoted was mangled but I do get that you don’t like
> March K . This does not surprise me. I think Pynchon’s take is quite a bit
> more sympathetic, but hey, that could be my own sympathy.
>
> On Sat, Dec 11, 2021 at 4:16 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Joe,
>>
>> You are, as ever, an insufferable school marm, with all the stereotypes
>> that come along with that title.  If you take issue with any of the
>> specifics of my comments here, you are more than welcome to
>> engage/respond.  But you’d rather just call me a bully.  I do play hard,
>> but I play fair. So, in conclusion,  Fuck you, and carry on.
>>
>> David Morris
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 11, 2021 at 4:01 PM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Welcome Thomas
>>>   Been awhile. We are back at the same old same old. Kind of boring. I
>>> seem to have roused anger among some. This was not intentional. Fortunately
>>> I only see Morris's hate mail indirectly in other member's posts, otherwise
>>> it goes in the trash.Not a bad use of email preferences.
>>>
>>> List
>>> I feel bad because this is supposed to be a discussion of ch 8 and I
>>> introduced a forbidden if somewhat unavoidable topic not to push a theory
>>> but to probe at whether Pynchon’s look at 9-11 is asking any of the same
>>> questions I and so many have asked. I don’t have a clear theory, but I do
>>> have problems with the mainstream narrative as I do with some of the
>>> insider theories. I never expected agreement with my thoughts on how P is
>>> handling the topic and many of those thoughts are tentative as I suspect
>>> many of his are. But hey, maybe he is actually the omniscient God Devil
>>> author of this lost planet and just unwilling to let us in on the joke til
>>> the mortal veil is lifted. I doubt it but a person has no choice but to
>>> face whatever surprises or sudden final period life and death have to
>>> offer.
>>>     I came to the list years ago when Dave Monroe was a central  figure,
>>> because someone gave me Vineland  and I laughed my ass off while taking a
>>> ride through America's version of 1984. Reading and writing about Pynchon
>>> and other topics has been an exercise in critical thinking and a deepening
>>> appreciation for a unique intellect with a unique approach to fiction who,
>>> if nothing else shares a picture of plutocrats, colonialism, state
>>> violence, and social injustice that makes sense to me. He also has an
>>> appetite for the silly, playful and light filled glory of earthly existance
>>> that I love traipsing through. From giggles to horror I’m all in.  Through
>>> the sparring on the list I got used to adjusting my ideas about what I read
>>> and to holding fast to what seemed good to me. I left for a good while at
>>> the start of the Russiagate fiasco because disgreement stirred too much
>>> emotion and had earlier driven away Robin Landseadel, one of my favorite P
>>> listers. I was also getting more involved in qigong and my own art-making,
>>> permaculture efforts, teaching and nonfiction reading material.
>>>
>>> Morris
>>> Insults and social bullying are not effective forms of persuasion. The
>>> ease with which you and others are duped by these tactics was on full
>>> disply with Russiagate,  and also in your recent insults and verbal abuse
>>> to Thomas and probably myself. The trouble with binary models of reality is
>>> that both sides can be held together by a pack of lies and self
>>> righteousness just as both sides can be different ways of seeing truth. I
>>> personally think some ideas and practices are loathsome and some generate
>>> health, compassion and wisdom, so I am not a person to utterly deny the use
>>> of binary models but I try to be selective and avoid being easily
>>> categorized in the culture wars.  Trying to fit others into one of these
>>> categories is frequently dishonest and a way to conjure straw men which are
>>> conveniently easy to torch.This is far too common in current discourse.
>>> Respectful persuasion and strong logic and evidence has a better chance of
>>> good results.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>> Your sentence that I quoted was mangled but I do get that you don’t like
>>> March K . This does not surprise me. I think Pynchon’s take is quite a bit
>>> more sympathetic, but hey, that could be my own sympathy.
>>>
>>> Maybe March is just an updated free silverite, her face tilted toward
>>> OZ, marching inwardly with Coxie’s army. I like her, partly because she is
>>> angry at the right things, though anger is its own drug and hard to tame
>>> and direct skillfully and wisely. Keep a cool head, but care, if I may
>>> paraphrase. I see in her also the same kind of sympathetic parental heart
>>> as I see in Ernie.
>>>
>>> My use of the f word was unnecessarily pissy. I tend to read sloppy
>>> sentences directed at me as disrespectful and can react  badly.
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Dec 11, 2021, at 10:47 AM, Huebschraeuber via Pynchon-l <
>>> pynchon-l at waste.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > We are the same person, which I noted when I send my first comment to
>>> > the list from the new account.
>>> >
>>> > Am 11.12.2021 um 14:35 schrieb David Morris:
>>> >
>>> >> This post now has me confused.
>>> >>
>>> >> Wasn’t the post below (“I am not sure about irony…”) from Thomas
>>> >> Eckhardt?  Why is this Hueb asshole now sending it out?
>>> >>
>>> >> By the way, Huebschraeuber, FUCK OFF.
>>> >>
>>> >> David Morris
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>
>>
>