BEg2 chapter 10 Fascist Aesthetics, unmaking thereof...

[Mark Kohut]

I sorta agree, in a Pynchon sorta but I think, sexist or otherwise,  it is
an essential part of his vision. As all the iterations of it attest. The
main defense against 'inherent sexism' as an inherent vice so to speak,
would
be the argument that the culture of America shapes this in women, most, too
many but real.

I do buy it in Maxine here but I'm easy. Free n' easy about Pynchon, as
people say. Pynchon sprinkles it like wind dust everywhere in BE about her
so that makes me "buy' it.

On Mon, Dec 20, 2021 at 12:33 PM Allen Ruch <quail at shipwrecklibrary.com>
wrote:

> I think this is an excellent question, Joseph! It's one I ask myself about
> Pynchon's work all the time.
>
> On one level, I think the attraction-to-fascists trope speaks to Pynchon's
> belief that we are all complicit in some degree, the attractive seductive
> allure of evil, the corruption of "Us" becoming "Them." I think this was
> most effectively explored through Brock Vond and Frenesi/Prairie in
> "Vineland" and through Lake Traverse in "Against the Day." However, with
> Maxine...
>
> Full disclosure: while Pynchon is one of my favorite writers, I'm one of
> those who find his writing to be, on occasion, sexist. And I'm not talking
> about horny, perverted, or anything like that—I don't care about that, I'm
> not confusing a male character's sex drive with sexism—but I mean something
> deeper, like I discussed before; certain female characters seem written
> from a detectable male perspective. And Maxine here is a great example.
>
> There's a few things that bother me about Maxine's portrayal, and one of
> them is her relationship with Windust. I know it's supposed to be
> unsettling, and yes, there's something definitely intriguing about it. But
> there's a level of *degradation* she's willing to accept that never quite
> rings true to me. I'm 100% ok with the Eric foot-sex; I actually buy
> that—Maxine is pretty spontaneous and earthy and sexual, I can see how that
> random encounter is erotic, and Eric is a nice guy. (Although I think
> Maxine taking the stage as s stripper is suspect.) But the scene later with
> Windust, you know... I just don't 100% buy it. Like Joseph says, it's a
> common trope in Pynchon, and sometimes I buy it—in "Vineland," on "Against
> the Day"—but not here with Maxine in "Bleeding Edge." While a character
> like Lake Traverse may have sought degradation, I have trouble reading that
> impulse in Maxine.
>
> And look, to anticipate some responses: I think Pynchon is a genius, and
> I'm open to alternate interpretations. I am not saying he doesn’t know what
> he's doing, and I see the allegorical point. I'm just saying it doesn't
> work for me. And I often wonder, if I were a woman, would I feel
> differently about some of these scenes? I said something like that a few
> months back—I'd love to hear more from female readers about Maxine's
> strengths and flaws as a female protagonist.
>
> And finally, I'm more or less ok with Pynchon's sexism. It bothers me
> sometimes, but it's hardly a deal-breaker. I mean, my favorite writers are
> Melville and Lovecraft, neither of whom seem aware that women even exist,
> so....
>
> —Quail
>
>
> On 12/19/21, 6:46 PM, "Pynchon-l on behalf of Joseph Tracy" <
> pynchon-l-bounces at waste.org on behalf of brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>
>         So what are the erotic dreams about? And what is the Pynchon-trope
> of women attracted to fascists about?   Is this getting old? Does the
> allegorical value justify it?
>
> --
> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>