Late capitalism a quote

Sat Dec 25 15:00:42 UTC 2021

So  either P’s account of Webb’s funeral is ahistorical and unlikely, or this was a situation where nobody wanted to enroll in a hit list. Pynchon has definitely indicated Union activity has become more dangerous and the union at this time is less strong than the later strike with Frank etc.

> On Dec 25, 2021, at 7:26 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Solidarity is what union members believe in and do, in general. As if union members were keeping themselves secret from the company thugs. 
> I say Pynchon would have shown us ways they did show solidarity IF they COULD not go IF that was what he wanted to show. 
> 
> Real Life Unions and member funerals: ....[These three full refutations are later than the time of AtD; there are scores more but could not find the AtD period easily] 
> FOUND INSIDE – PAGE 217
> Over 10,000 workers marched behind their murdered comrade Levy in the mass funeral given him by the workers on Tuesday ... Union Unity League murdered by the forces of reaction was Harzel Weizenberg , a member of unemployed council No.
> 
> Another book
> Again the workers of New York took part in a mass funeral of their second murdered comrade , Gonzalez , on Friday , July 4 , the same day on which thousands of workers were holding a huge unemployed mass demonstration in Union Park ...
> 
> Another:
> FOUND INSIDE – PAGE 227
> Because union benefits included funeral costs , victims received more fitting , dignified funerals . ... Locals strongly encouraged all members to attend the funerals of fellow workers ; some fined members who did not show up .
> 
> David Morris is right to point out that for Pynchon to write that none from the union showed at his funeral needs a Why? Pynchon knows the above basically. Therefore I read it as a statement about the meaningless (in some discussable sense) of unions as an organization for human connection, personal concern. 
> 
> On Fri, Dec 24, 2021 at 6:27 PM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net <mailto:brook7 at sover.net>> wrote:
> On the other hand, by the time we get to the growing remnants of the Traverse clan in Humboldt County (Vineland) at the final picnic scene the unions are still alive and supporting each other. And in ATD, Kit and Lake's path were a lot lonelier than Reef or Frank’s. And one can only be so surprised that union members did not want to identify with someone who had just been murdered by company thugs.  
>    The primary and most effective tactic of the unions was the non-violent withholding of labor to achieve bargaining status. This cost them many lives and made things better for future workers. Do people have a right to self defense or violent revolution against an oppressive government? US history started twith that premise,  but violence has many downsides as a means to justice, quickly becomes a bad habit. Pynchon seems to be able to offer a nuanced  picture of these struggles but not much sympathy for the violence of plutocrats or state aggression which were far out of proportion to the relatively rare instances of anarchist violence. 
> 
> > On Dec 24, 2021, at 9:46 AM, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com <mailto:richard.romeo at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > 
> > I still find it interesting no one from the union shows up to Webb's funeral. as Reef says 'fuck'em'. I like when Pynchon throws in those little nuances
> > 
> > rich
> > 
> > On Fri, Dec 24, 2021 at 9:21 AM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com <mailto:fqmorris at gmail.com> <mailto:fqmorris at gmail.com <mailto:fqmorris at gmail.com>>> wrote:
> > I think Rich’s take on ease and pragmatics proves true as presented by Pynchon when you examine the case of Webb Traverse in ATD.  Webb starts out a truly likable guy, but still die-hard anti-owner/pro-labor, criminal-activist who parts ways with his youngest son over a dispute about principles.  But over the course of the book, things change…  including Webb.  I’ll get back to you all about the nature of that change in ATD, but it shouldn’t be surprising to anyone that Pynchon doesn’t see these things in B&W.
> > 
> > On Fri, Dec 24, 2021 at 8:48 AM rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com <mailto:richard.romeo at gmail.com> <mailto:richard.romeo at gmail.com <mailto:richard.romeo at gmail.com>>> wrote:
> > you all blame capitalism like you blame religion, state, technology or the
> > matrix. easy to offload all that angst onto a concept. maybe it makes you
> > feel better but nothing changes, does it? most of us dont want radical
> > change. the simple matter is whatever we live in provides to most. that may
> > be hard to stomach. but it's true. prophets are the biggest hypocrites
> > 
> > rich
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Fri, Dec 24, 2021 at 12:04 AM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net <mailto:brook7 at sover.net> <mailto:brook7 at sover.net <mailto:brook7 at sover.net>>> wrote:
> > 
> > > This topic came up earlier and I just found this quote in conversation
> > > about Igor paying Maxine for warning about Madoff pyramid scheme. Madoff
> > > had a Pynchonian name without even trying. One of Madoff's kids was at a
> > > school where I teach an evening  art class . Very hard on him.
> > >
> > > March
> > > “No, I meant late capitalism is a pyramid racket on a global scale, the
> > > kind of pyramid you do human sacrifices up on top of, meantime getting the
> > > suckers to believe it’s all gonna go on forever.”
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l> <https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>>
> > >
> > --
> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l> <https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>>
> 
> --
> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>