Late capitalism a quote

Sat Dec 25 16:13:15 UTC 2021

As I have written, I think and as Pynchon wrote about AtD---a history that
was a little off-history, or to that effect, so ahistorical is sometimes
part of the style.  I'll stick with the meaning
I've arrived at as mine own this morning....and likely, given a focus on
Webb more than the union...

On Sat, Dec 25, 2021 at 10:01 AM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> So  either P’s account of Webb’s funeral is ahistorical and unlikely, or
> this was a situation where nobody wanted to enroll in a hit list. Pynchon
> has definitely indicated Union activity has become more dangerous and the
> union at this time is less strong than the later strike with Frank etc.
>
>
> On Dec 25, 2021, at 7:26 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Solidarity is what union members believe in and do, in general. As if
> union members were keeping themselves secret from the company thugs.
> I say Pynchon would have shown us ways they did show solidarity IF they
> COULD not go IF that was what he wanted to show.
>
> Real Life Unions and member funerals: ....[These three full refutations
> are later than the time of AtD; there are scores more but could not find
> the AtD period easily]
> FOUND INSIDE – PAGE 217
> Over 10,000 workers marched behind their murdered comrade Levy in the mass
>  funeral given him by the workers on Tuesday ... Union Unity League
> murdered by the forces of reaction was Harzel Weizenberg , a member of
> unemployed council No.
>
> Another book
> Again the workers of New York took part in a mass funeral of their second
> murdered comrade , Gonzalez , on Friday , July 4 , the same day on which
> thousands of workers were holding a huge unemployed mass demonstration in
> Union Park ...
>
> Another:
> FOUND INSIDE – PAGE 227
> Because union benefits included funeral costs , victims received more
> fitting , dignified funerals . ... Locals strongly encouraged all members
> to attend the funerals of fellow workers ; some fined members who did not show
> up .
>
> David Morris is right to point out that for Pynchon to write that none
> from the union showed at his funeral needs a Why? Pynchon knows the above
> basically. Therefore I read it as a statement about the meaningless (in
> some discussable sense) of unions as an organization for human connection,
> personal concern.
>
> On Fri, Dec 24, 2021 at 6:27 PM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>
>> On the other hand, by the time we get to the growing remnants of the
>> Traverse clan in Humboldt County (Vineland) at the final picnic scene the
>> unions are still alive and supporting each other. And in ATD, Kit and
>> Lake's path were a lot lonelier than Reef or Frank’s. And one can only be
>> so surprised that union members did not want to identify with someone who
>> had just been murdered by company thugs.
>>    The primary and most effective tactic of the unions was the
>> non-violent withholding of labor to achieve bargaining status. This cost
>> them many lives and made things better for future workers. Do people have a
>> right to self defense or violent revolution against an oppressive
>> government? US history started twith that premise,  but violence has many
>> downsides as a means to justice, quickly becomes a bad habit. Pynchon seems
>> to be able to offer a nuanced  picture of these struggles but not much
>> sympathy for the violence of plutocrats or state aggression which were far
>> out of proportion to the relatively rare instances of anarchist violence.
>>
>> > On Dec 24, 2021, at 9:46 AM, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > I still find it interesting no one from the union shows up to Webb's
>> funeral. as Reef says 'fuck'em'. I like when Pynchon throws in those little
>> nuances
>> >
>> > rich
>> >
>> > On Fri, Dec 24, 2021 at 9:21 AM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com
>> <mailto:fqmorris at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> > I think Rich’s take on ease and pragmatics proves true as presented by
>> Pynchon when you examine the case of Webb Traverse in ATD.  Webb starts out
>> a truly likable guy, but still die-hard anti-owner/pro-labor,
>> criminal-activist who parts ways with his youngest son over a dispute about
>> principles.  But over the course of the book, things change…  including
>> Webb.  I’ll get back to you all about the nature of that change in ATD, but
>> it shouldn’t be surprising to anyone that Pynchon doesn’t see these things
>> in B&W.
>> >
>> > On Fri, Dec 24, 2021 at 8:48 AM rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com <mailto:
>> richard.romeo at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> > you all blame capitalism like you blame religion, state, technology or
>> the
>> > matrix. easy to offload all that angst onto a concept. maybe it makes
>> you
>> > feel better but nothing changes, does it? most of us dont want radical
>> > change. the simple matter is whatever we live in provides to most. that
>> may
>> > be hard to stomach. but it's true. prophets are the biggest hypocrites
>> >
>> > rich
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Dec 24, 2021 at 12:04 AM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net
>> <mailto:brook7 at sover.net>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > This topic came up earlier and I just found this quote in conversation
>> > > about Igor paying Maxine for warning about Madoff pyramid scheme.
>> Madoff
>> > > had a Pynchonian name without even trying. One of Madoff's kids was
>> at a
>> > > school where I teach an evening  art class . Very hard on him.
>> > >
>> > > March
>> > > “No, I meant late capitalism is a pyramid racket on a global scale,
>> the
>> > > kind of pyramid you do human sacrifices up on top of, meantime
>> getting the
>> > > suckers to believe it’s all gonna go on forever.”
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>> > >
>> > --
>> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>>
>> --
>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>
>
>