Late capitalism a quote

[Mark Kohut]

Thank you...it's been awhile since I've read it......And/or I read into it
incorrectly the other times (twice)
I tried a Group Read recently enough but did not get as far as you have
gotten with BE.....and with a schedule happening....

On Sat, Dec 25, 2021 at 12:20 PM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> Frank does not die in ATD. Apparently the gold angel was just trying to
> scare him.
>
> On Dec 25, 2021, at 7:47 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I, controversially, I'm sure, disagreed with by most (seen as
> positively arrogant for my belief held amidst all of Pynchon's ambiguities)
> see Pynchon presenting a clear
> vision---the narrating artist's vision---that violence leads to
> violence----the way Frank dies for example, a meaning within the context of
> the text-- and so much more---
>
> On Fri, Dec 24, 2021 at 6:27 PM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>
>> On the other hand, by the time we get to the growing remnants of the
>> Traverse clan in Humboldt County (Vineland) at the final picnic scene the
>> unions are still alive and supporting each other. And in ATD, Kit and
>> Lake's path were a lot lonelier than Reef or Frank’s. And one can only be
>> so surprised that union members did not want to identify with someone who
>> had just been murdered by company thugs.
>>    The primary and most effective tactic of the unions was the
>> non-violent withholding of labor to achieve bargaining status. This cost
>> them many lives and made things better for future workers. Do people have a
>> right to self defense or violent revolution against an oppressive
>> government? US history started twith that premise,  but violence has many
>> downsides as a means to justice, quickly becomes a bad habit. Pynchon seems
>> to be able to offer a nuanced  picture of these struggles but not much
>> sympathy for the violence of plutocrats or state aggression which were far
>> out of proportion to the relatively rare instances of anarchist violence.
>>
>> > On Dec 24, 2021, at 9:46 AM, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > I still find it interesting no one from the union shows up to Webb's
>> funeral. as Reef says 'fuck'em'. I like when Pynchon throws in those little
>> nuances
>> >
>> > rich
>> >
>> > On Fri, Dec 24, 2021 at 9:21 AM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com
>> <mailto:fqmorris at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> > I think Rich’s take on ease and pragmatics proves true as presented by
>> Pynchon when you examine the case of Webb Traverse in ATD.  Webb starts out
>> a truly likable guy, but still die-hard anti-owner/pro-labor,
>> criminal-activist who parts ways with his youngest son over a dispute about
>> principles.  But over the course of the book, things change…  including
>> Webb.  I’ll get back to you all about the nature of that change in ATD, but
>> it shouldn’t be surprising to anyone that Pynchon doesn’t see these things
>> in B&W.
>> >
>> > On Fri, Dec 24, 2021 at 8:48 AM rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com <mailto:
>> richard.romeo at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> > you all blame capitalism like you blame religion, state, technology or
>> the
>> > matrix. easy to offload all that angst onto a concept. maybe it makes
>> you
>> > feel better but nothing changes, does it? most of us dont want radical
>> > change. the simple matter is whatever we live in provides to most. that
>> may
>> > be hard to stomach. but it's true. prophets are the biggest hypocrites
>> >
>> > rich
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Dec 24, 2021 at 12:04 AM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net
>> <mailto:brook7 at sover.net>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > This topic came up earlier and I just found this quote in conversation
>> > > about Igor paying Maxine for warning about Madoff pyramid scheme.
>> Madoff
>> > > had a Pynchonian name without even trying. One of Madoff's kids was
>> at a
>> > > school where I teach an evening  art class . Very hard on him.
>> > >
>> > > March
>> > > “No, I meant late capitalism is a pyramid racket on a global scale,
>> the
>> > > kind of pyramid you do human sacrifices up on top of, meantime
>> getting the
>> > > suckers to believe it’s all gonna go on forever.”
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>> > >
>> > --
>> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>>
>> --
>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>
>
>