Late capitalism a quote

[Joseph Tracy]

Frank does not die in ATD. Apparently the gold angel was just trying to scare him.

> On Dec 25, 2021, at 7:47 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I, controversially, I'm sure, disagreed with by most (seen as positively arrogant for my belief held amidst all of Pynchon's ambiguities) see Pynchon presenting a clear 
> vision---the narrating artist's vision---that violence leads to violence----the way Frank dies for example, a meaning within the context of the text-- and so much more---
> 
> On Fri, Dec 24, 2021 at 6:27 PM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net <mailto:brook7 at sover.net>> wrote:
> On the other hand, by the time we get to the growing remnants of the Traverse clan in Humboldt County (Vineland) at the final picnic scene the unions are still alive and supporting each other. And in ATD, Kit and Lake's path were a lot lonelier than Reef or Frank’s. And one can only be so surprised that union members did not want to identify with someone who had just been murdered by company thugs.  
>    The primary and most effective tactic of the unions was the non-violent withholding of labor to achieve bargaining status. This cost them many lives and made things better for future workers. Do people have a right to self defense or violent revolution against an oppressive government? US history started twith that premise,  but violence has many downsides as a means to justice, quickly becomes a bad habit. Pynchon seems to be able to offer a nuanced  picture of these struggles but not much sympathy for the violence of plutocrats or state aggression which were far out of proportion to the relatively rare instances of anarchist violence. 
> 
> > On Dec 24, 2021, at 9:46 AM, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com <mailto:richard.romeo at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > 
> > I still find it interesting no one from the union shows up to Webb's funeral. as Reef says 'fuck'em'. I like when Pynchon throws in those little nuances
> > 
> > rich
> > 
> > On Fri, Dec 24, 2021 at 9:21 AM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com <mailto:fqmorris at gmail.com> <mailto:fqmorris at gmail.com <mailto:fqmorris at gmail.com>>> wrote:
> > I think Rich’s take on ease and pragmatics proves true as presented by Pynchon when you examine the case of Webb Traverse in ATD.  Webb starts out a truly likable guy, but still die-hard anti-owner/pro-labor, criminal-activist who parts ways with his youngest son over a dispute about principles.  But over the course of the book, things change…  including Webb.  I’ll get back to you all about the nature of that change in ATD, but it shouldn’t be surprising to anyone that Pynchon doesn’t see these things in B&W.
> > 
> > On Fri, Dec 24, 2021 at 8:48 AM rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com <mailto:richard.romeo at gmail.com> <mailto:richard.romeo at gmail.com <mailto:richard.romeo at gmail.com>>> wrote:
> > you all blame capitalism like you blame religion, state, technology or the
> > matrix. easy to offload all that angst onto a concept. maybe it makes you
> > feel better but nothing changes, does it? most of us dont want radical
> > change. the simple matter is whatever we live in provides to most. that may
> > be hard to stomach. but it's true. prophets are the biggest hypocrites
> > 
> > rich
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Fri, Dec 24, 2021 at 12:04 AM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net <mailto:brook7 at sover.net> <mailto:brook7 at sover.net <mailto:brook7 at sover.net>>> wrote:
> > 
> > > This topic came up earlier and I just found this quote in conversation
> > > about Igor paying Maxine for warning about Madoff pyramid scheme. Madoff
> > > had a Pynchonian name without even trying. One of Madoff's kids was at a
> > > school where I teach an evening  art class . Very hard on him.
> > >
> > > March
> > > “No, I meant late capitalism is a pyramid racket on a global scale, the
> > > kind of pyramid you do human sacrifices up on top of, meantime getting the
> > > suckers to believe it’s all gonna go on forever.”
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
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> > >
> > --
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> 
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