this just occurred to me re unions & Webb

[David Morris]

God, y’all do a lot of dancing amidst the simple, but gut-wretchedly sad
story of Webb’s slow and as coldly-cruel and painfully inflicted as
possible torture/murder, as it is told in the book (p.192-198).

Webb had done nothing in his recent past to have alienated the Union.
Those days were well behind him.  He’d entered a more melancholy phase
without the company of his family anymore.  As Lake, speaking to Mayva,
said, *“We were never that important to him, Mamma.  He had his almighty
damn Union, that’s what he loved, if he loved anything.”*  And the narrator
then *immediately* says (in type just like this), “IF IT WAS LOVE, it was
less than two-way.”

We’re then told that Webb, after Mayva and Lake left him, “sought the
embrace of Local 63, which, alarmed at the vehemence of his need, decided
there ought to be some distance between him and the Union, and suggested he
shift over into the Uncompahgre for a while, to the Torpedo workings.”  It
was there that he was knocked unconscious, badly beaten and prolongedly
tortured for the pure motive of inflicting pain long beyond his spirit’s
ability to bear it.

So, although his “arrest” was by a Company inspector, accusing him of
stealing a gold nugget planted on him, it was by no means an “event.”  His
abduction and torture were done in secret, and his body was dumped in the
neighboring state of Utah in “Jeshimon, [one of the places] known and
feared as the places you ended up on top of when nobody wanted you found.”

So did “nobody” want Webb’s body found?  Well, it was found, and a funeral
was had, and “nobody” came.

David Morris

On Sat, Dec 25, 2021 at 11:22 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think the only thing here is it is unlikely most did not know and word
> would spread.....workers, like neighbors, know most of what one of
> theirown is doing--esp regarding something like that......and I do think
> the overwhelming amount of real historical evidence, such as all I
> presented,  is that worker-comrades would show solidarity by attending the
> funeral of one they felt in solidarity with..... And a meaning that you
> don't say you see is the one I wrote as a possibility: Pynchon sides with
> all you wrote about non-violent union action.....Walter Reuther's way, a
> known hero of TRP's, not any violent criminal kind.........Webb presented
> here is why Pynchon finds the Traverses as morally lacking. imho.


> On Sat, Dec 25, 2021 at 10:57 AM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>
> > That seems more likely and would amplify the fear for thise who might
> want
> > to attend, because they would be both in disfavor from the union and
> marked
> > by the Pinkertons. The only thing is there is no indication that the
> union
> > leaders knew Webb was a dynamiter. Veikko is his only known helper. I
> > personally don’t think there is any big point here apart from maybe the
> > loneliness of Webb’s more destructive resistance. I don’t even know what
> it
> > would be. Mostly it seems to lead to a solo renegade inclination in Reef.
> > To me the saddest and most foolish behavior of Webb T was his failure as
> a
> > father toward Kit and Lake.
> >    All in all it is hard to separate the range of tactics of the unions
> as
> > far as ultimate effectiveness at achieving goals. The French  of recent
> > history have used property destruction as a pretty effective tool.
> > Historically, the fundamental and most destructive personal violence has
> > predominately been on the part of the owners, private cops, and State.
> When
> > people are subjected to this kind of violence there are different
> reactions
> > and all in all most Americans are not pacifists. It is surprising that
> the
> > kind of hardcore violent class warfare feared by czars, the rich and
> > conservatives is really very rare, while excessive state violence is not
> > rare at all.
> >  I see myself as a Pacifist but know that life can challenge one in
> > extreme ways. I am in a Friend’s meeting. But I cannot judge those who
> feel
> > everyone has a right of self defense and how they practically interpret
> > that right.
> >
> > > On Dec 25, 2021, at 9:11 AM, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > could be as well a control issue. Webb going off and causing mayhem
> > against
> > > union leadership wishes. I dont remember if in the novel Webb is warned
> > or
> > > advised by the union to cool it.
> > >
> > > On Sat, Dec 25, 2021 at 8:12 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> The other (major) reason no union member attended Webb's funeral,
> > perhaps,
> > >> in Pynchon's vision in AtD might be because they---union members with
> > real
> > >> solidarity---
> > >> did not see Webb that way.
> > >>
> > >> In fact, I like this better. Webb had turned therefore........
> > >> --
> > >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> > >>
> > > --
> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >
> --
> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>