Re: My Reddit comments on Webb’s funeral

Fri Dec 31 13:46:11 UTC 2021

And to provide some very in depth support to reading the crucificion  in
Webb’s death, a person called “Bardflight” has posted this at the Reddit
ATD group read:
—————————————
So I wanted to include a consideration of the the end of the last section
where Webb Traverse is murdered. Once you put the parts together and look
at key written lines   the intentionality with which Pynchon wrote this
scene becomes evident.

WEBB TRAVERSE’S MURDER AS ANARCHIST CRUCIFIXION  Jeshimon  is a Biblical
name meaning 'wastelands, or wilderness. The whole scene of Webb Traverses
murder is like a condensation of the historic crucifixion of Jesus(of N.T.)
under roman law as exercised in the hinterlands of empire. The roads lined
with telegraph poles and dangling corpses correspond to roads of the
occupied country lined with crucified rebels, the clergy for hire to
collaborationist priests, Judas's betrayal coresponds to Deuce's via Webb's
trust. The local god with wings reminds of the Roman eagle. the "trail of
pain" sounds like the stations of the cross on the road to Calvary.  The
crucifixion keeps getting more explicit. "We done both your feet, how bout
lets see your hands there old timer."There is what the Rolling Stones call
the moment of doubt and pain- ‘Why hast thou forsaken me’.  Before, Webb
had only recognized it as politics, what Veikko called
“procedure”—accepting that it might be necessary to lay down his life, that
he was committed as if by signed contract to die for his brothers and
sisters in the struggle. But now that the moment was upon him . . . “Later
“He watched the light over the ranges slowly draining away. After a while
he couldn’t talk much. He was spitting blood. He wanted it over with.”They
drive a railroad pin through his hands. There is even a mocking reference
to "that good bodily resurrection stuff".And on the third day he ascended
from hell( Nicene Creed). When Reef arrives in Jeshimon it "looks like a
religious painting of hell". The comparisons continue and pick up with Reef
reading to Webb's dead body and confused ghost from "The Chums of Chance at
the Ends of the Earth".The chums seeming to be "agents of an extra human
justice”, reminding the reader of the book of The Revelation.There is also
a kind of Pentecost, "Reef began to feel some new presence inside him,
growing, inflating—gravid with what it seemed he must become", with Reef
enjoying talking with his Father, adopting his Father's mission and
exploding dynamite, "each explosion like the text of another sermon,
preached in the voice of thunder".

Well that's my take fellow ATD readers. I spent a lot of time with the
Bible in earlier years and know the territory. I'm not about to start
proselytizing, nor am I proposing Pynchon is , but this  Pynchonian use of
religious imagery , including Christianity, Shamanism and Buddhism, is
definitely a recurrent theme of ATD.

On Fri, Dec 31, 2021 at 8:09 AM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:

> “Are you talking to “ME???”,”  he said, in his best Robert DiNero (Taxi
> Drver) imitation.
>
> Oh!!! Why didn’t you axe that in the first place?
>
> [and, in the context of that silly question,  let me tell you (having just
> woken up) how my dreams for the last two nights were so SO META, that I
> kept waking up thinking “why am I dreaming this crazy shit,”  where (still
> dreaming) I keep semi-waking from my dream and saying to my dreaming self,
> in frustration, “I know this dream makes no sense, because (I know) in it I
> keep trying to write and direct this film that’s impossible to film,  and
> with no script (a a list of other frustrations that I know are because I
> dreaming)…”.   And after repeatedly  refusing to continue with the
> filming-dream charade, I wake up, and get out of bed, in full refusal to
> continue the dream.]
>
> So, now awake, let me answer.  It should be clear that I thought the
> “authorial internet” statement you gave me was completely absurd AND the
> last thing I think TRP intended in his writing.
>
> *I think TRP has in Webb written one of his fullest and most sympathetic
> and humorously likable characters ever, and in a very short number of
> words.  He is *almost* a completely pure character.  Webb has become as
> close to a Christ figure as TRP could possibly make him  in the description
> of  his brutal death and crucifixion and his residency in Hell.   So, in
> this reading, the Union become **almost** the Pharisees, and Vibe (as the
> prime Company Owner) is always the Satan.*
>
> I sure hope this purges the Meta-dreaming out of my system.
>
> David Morris
>
> PS.  I think the NEXT step I’m supposed to take in this sem-lucid “dream
> yoga” (that’s a real thing) is to hold on to the knowledge that I’m
> dreaming, but to drop the frustration, and let it flow while I ride in it
> calmly.  I’ll see if I can manage to do that next time.
>
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=dream+yoga+practice&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS955US956&oq=dream+yoga&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j46i512l2j0i512l3.26188j0j4&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
>
> Dream yoga or milam —the Yoga of the Dream State—is a suite of advanced
> tantric sadhana of the entwined Mantrayana lineages of Dzogchen. Dream yoga
> consists of tantric processes and techniques within the trance Bardos of
> Dream and Sleep Six Dharmas of Naropa. Wikipedia
> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_yoga>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 31, 2021 at 6:05 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> let me just ask it straight: How do you think TRP "sees" Webb in Against
>> the Day?
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 31, 2021 at 1:40 AM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Reading: What Webb let become of his family is the main reason
>>> AUTHORIALLY he ended up the way he did. The way he died and was buried,
>>> that is.
>>>
>>> OK.  Let’s break this statement down to its primary components, subject,
>>> verb, object:
>>>
>>> SUBJECT:  “*What* (Webb let become of his family) ”
>>> VERB:  *“is”*
>>> OBJECT:  *“the* (main)* reason* (AUTHORIALLY he ended up the way he
>>> did).”
>>>
>>> *FIRST*
>>> The SUBJECT of the  statement (*WHAT*) has a modifier with its own
>>> subject,verb & object: ”*Webb let become of his family*.”
>>>
>>> This subject, “What,”  has a three parts modifier with its own subject,
>>> verb, & object
>>> SUBJECT:  *Webb*
>>> VERB:  *Let*
>>> OBJECT:  *Become* (of his family)
>>>
>>> I think the key word of this modifier is the verb “*to Let*.”
>>>
>>> 1: to cause to : MAKE <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/make>
>>>
>>> let me know
>>>
>>> 2a: to give opportunity to or fail to prevent:
>>>
>>> live and let live
>>>
>>> a cloud break let us see the summit
>>>
>>> let the opportunity slip
>>>
>>> 2b—used in the imperative to introduce a request or proposal:
>>>
>>> let us pray
>>>
>>> 2c—used as an auxiliary to express a warning:
>>>
>>> let him try
>>>
>>> 3: to free from or as if from confinement:
>>>
>>> let out a scream
>>>
>>> let blood
>>>
>>> 4: to permit to enter, pass, or leave:
>>>
>>> let them through
>>>
>>> let them off with a warning
>>>
>>> This object, “become,” is a verb that functions like a noun in the
>>> modifying phrase, meaning a “thing” that Webb “let.”  And this *THING*
>>> thus is a substitute or defining equivalent of the *subject “what” of
>>> the primary statement.*
>>>
>>> So, this *THING* that Webb  *made, or caused into being, or gave
>>> opportunity to, or failed to prevent, or requested to be introduced, or
>>> permitted to enter*, is the SUBJECT of the primary statement.
>>>
>>> *NEXT*
>>> “*IS*” is the statement’s *VERB*.
>>>
>>> Definition of is (Entry 1 of 4)
>>>
>>> present tense third-person singular of BE
>>> <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/be>
>>>
>>> dialectal present tense first-person and third-person singular of BE
>>> <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/be>
>>>
>>> dialectal present tense plural of BE
>>> <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/be>
>>>
>>>
>>> is- combining form
>>> <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/combining%20form>
>>>
>>> Definition of is- (Entry 4 of 4)
>>>
>>> 1: equal : homogeneous : uniform
>>>
>>> *THIRD*
>>> *“the* (main)* reason* (AUTHORIALLY he ended up the way he did).” Is
>>> the *OBJECT* of the primary statement.
>>>
>>> Essential Meaning of reason
>>>
>>> 1: a statement or fact that explains why something is the way it is,
>>> why someone does, thinks, or says something, or why someone behaves a
>>> certain way
>>>
>>> I gave a reason for my absence.
>>>
>>> Is there a reason for your strange behavior?
>>>
>>> So the statement’s OBJECT is the (authorial) explanation, or list of
>>> causes and manners of, in all its details of the Ways and Why’s of Webb’s
>>> END in ATD.
>>>
>>> Restated:  The horrifying death and the disrespect of his pre-burial (in
>>> Jeshemon) and burial (with the *Union’s* meanest kind of disrespect)
>>>  was written into the story the way that it was, or is explained by the
>>> author to have happened because of Webb’s causing or inviting or failing to
>>> prevent what became of Webb’s family.
>>>
>>> So, something that Webb caused before his death (we presume) to happen
>>> to his family after his death was the cause of his own horrific death.
>>> Would this be called a manifestation of Jiu-Jitsu Karma?  Or something???
>>>
>>> I think only an especially cruel God would play that fate game.
>>>
>>> David Morris
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 1:12 PM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> David,
>>>>
>>>> Since I am not making time to reread enough of AtD, although I did
>>> reread those eight pages you put in my hip, I am asking your opinion of
>>> this reading [interpretation] of Webb here re the union.
>>>
>>> Reading: What Webb let become of his family is the main reason
>>> AUTHORIALLY he ended up the way he did. The way he died and was buried,
>>> that is.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>