Re: My Reddit comments on Webb’s funeral

[Mark Kohut]

Great stuff, David, yours and Bardflight's. Thanks. I now know more and
better.

On Fri, Dec 31, 2021 at 8:46 AM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:

> And to provide some very in depth support to reading the crucificion  in
> Webb’s death, a person called “Bardflight” has posted this at the Reddit
> ATD group read:
> —————————————
> So I wanted to include a consideration of the the end of the last section
> where Webb Traverse is murdered. Once you put the parts together and look
> at key written lines   the intentionality with which Pynchon wrote this
> scene becomes evident.
>
> WEBB TRAVERSE’S MURDER AS ANARCHIST CRUCIFIXION  Jeshimon  is a Biblical
> name meaning 'wastelands, or wilderness. The whole scene of Webb Traverses
> murder is like a condensation of the historic crucifixion of Jesus(of N.T.)
> under roman law as exercised in the hinterlands of empire. The roads lined
> with telegraph poles and dangling corpses correspond to roads of the
> occupied country lined with crucified rebels, the clergy for hire to
> collaborationist priests, Judas's betrayal coresponds to Deuce's via Webb's
> trust. The local god with wings reminds of the Roman eagle. the "trail of
> pain" sounds like the stations of the cross on the road to Calvary.  The
> crucifixion keeps getting more explicit. "We done both your feet, how bout
> lets see your hands there old timer."There is what the Rolling Stones call
> the moment of doubt and pain- ‘Why hast thou forsaken me’.  Before, Webb
> had only recognized it as politics, what Veikko called
> “procedure”—accepting that it might be necessary to lay down his life, that
> he was committed as if by signed contract to die for his brothers and
> sisters in the struggle. But now that the moment was upon him . . . “Later
> “He watched the light over the ranges slowly draining away. After a while
> he couldn’t talk much. He was spitting blood. He wanted it over with.”They
> drive a railroad pin through his hands. There is even a mocking reference
> to "that good bodily resurrection stuff".And on the third day he ascended
> from hell( Nicene Creed). When Reef arrives in Jeshimon it "looks like a
> religious painting of hell". The comparisons continue and pick up with Reef
> reading to Webb's dead body and confused ghost from "The Chums of Chance at
> the Ends of the Earth".The chums seeming to be "agents of an extra human
> justice”, reminding the reader of the book of The Revelation.There is also
> a kind of Pentecost, "Reef began to feel some new presence inside him,
> growing, inflating—gravid with what it seemed he must become", with Reef
> enjoying talking with his Father, adopting his Father's mission and
> exploding dynamite, "each explosion like the text of another sermon,
> preached in the voice of thunder".
>
> Well that's my take fellow ATD readers. I spent a lot of time with the
> Bible in earlier years and know the territory. I'm not about to start
> proselytizing, nor am I proposing Pynchon is , but this  Pynchonian use of
> religious imagery , including Christianity, Shamanism and Buddhism, is
> definitely a recurrent theme of ATD.
>
> On Fri, Dec 31, 2021 at 8:09 AM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> “Are you talking to “ME???”,”  he said, in his best Robert DiNero (Taxi
>> Drver) imitation.
>>
>> Oh!!! Why didn’t you axe that in the first place?
>>
>> [and, in the context of that silly question,  let me tell you (having
>> just woken up) how my dreams for the last two nights were so SO META, that
>> I kept waking up thinking “why am I dreaming this crazy shit,”  where
>> (still dreaming) I keep semi-waking from my dream and saying to my dreaming
>> self, in frustration, “I know this dream makes no sense, because (I know)
>> in it I keep trying to write and direct this film that’s impossible to
>> film,  and with no script (a a list of other frustrations that I know are
>> because I dreaming)…”.   And after repeatedly  refusing to continue with
>> the filming-dream charade, I wake up, and get out of bed, in full refusal
>> to continue the dream.]
>>
>> So, now awake, let me answer.  It should be clear that I thought the
>> “authorial internet” statement you gave me was completely absurd AND the
>> last thing I think TRP intended in his writing.
>>
>> *I think TRP has in Webb written one of his fullest and most sympathetic
>> and humorously likable characters ever, and in a very short number of
>> words.  He is *almost* a completely pure character.  Webb has become as
>> close to a Christ figure as TRP could possibly make him  in the description
>> of  his brutal death and crucifixion and his residency in Hell.   So, in
>> this reading, the Union become **almost** the Pharisees, and Vibe (as the
>> prime Company Owner) is always the Satan.*
>>
>> I sure hope this purges the Meta-dreaming out of my system.
>>
>> David Morris
>>
>> PS.  I think the NEXT step I’m supposed to take in this sem-lucid “dream
>> yoga” (that’s a real thing) is to hold on to the knowledge that I’m
>> dreaming, but to drop the frustration, and let it flow while I ride in it
>> calmly.  I’ll see if I can manage to do that next time.
>>
>>
>> https://www.google.com/search?q=dream+yoga+practice&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS955US956&oq=dream+yoga&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j46i512l2j0i512l3.26188j0j4&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
>>
>> Dream yoga or milam —the Yoga of the Dream State—is a suite of advanced
>> tantric sadhana of the entwined Mantrayana lineages of Dzogchen. Dream yoga
>> consists of tantric processes and techniques within the trance Bardos of
>> Dream and Sleep Six Dharmas of Naropa. Wikipedia
>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_yoga>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 31, 2021 at 6:05 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> let me just ask it straight: How do you think TRP "sees" Webb in Against
>>> the Day?
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 31, 2021 at 1:40 AM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Reading: What Webb let become of his family is the main reason
>>>> AUTHORIALLY he ended up the way he did. The way he died and was buried,
>>>> that is.
>>>>
>>>> OK.  Let’s break this statement down to its primary components,
>>>> subject, verb, object:
>>>>
>>>> SUBJECT:  “*What* (Webb let become of his family) ”
>>>> VERB:  *“is”*
>>>> OBJECT:  *“the* (main)* reason* (AUTHORIALLY he ended up the way he
>>>> did).”
>>>>
>>>> *FIRST*
>>>> The SUBJECT of the  statement (*WHAT*) has a modifier with its own
>>>> subject,verb & object: ”*Webb let become of his family*.”
>>>>
>>>> This subject, “What,”  has a three parts modifier with its own subject,
>>>> verb, & object
>>>> SUBJECT:  *Webb*
>>>> VERB:  *Let*
>>>> OBJECT:  *Become* (of his family)
>>>>
>>>> I think the key word of this modifier is the verb “*to Let*.”
>>>>
>>>> 1: to cause to : MAKE <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/make>
>>>>
>>>> let me know
>>>>
>>>> 2a: to give opportunity to or fail to prevent:
>>>>
>>>> live and let live
>>>>
>>>> a cloud break let us see the summit
>>>>
>>>> let the opportunity slip
>>>>
>>>> 2b—used in the imperative to introduce a request or proposal:
>>>>
>>>> let us pray
>>>>
>>>> 2c—used as an auxiliary to express a warning:
>>>>
>>>> let him try
>>>>
>>>> 3: to free from or as if from confinement:
>>>>
>>>> let out a scream
>>>>
>>>> let blood
>>>>
>>>> 4: to permit to enter, pass, or leave:
>>>>
>>>> let them through
>>>>
>>>> let them off with a warning
>>>>
>>>> This object, “become,” is a verb that functions like a noun in the
>>>> modifying phrase, meaning a “thing” that Webb “let.”  And this *THING*
>>>> thus is a substitute or defining equivalent of the *subject “what” of
>>>> the primary statement.*
>>>>
>>>> So, this *THING* that Webb  *made, or caused into being, or gave
>>>> opportunity to, or failed to prevent, or requested to be introduced, or
>>>> permitted to enter*, is the SUBJECT of the primary statement.
>>>>
>>>> *NEXT*
>>>> “*IS*” is the statement’s *VERB*.
>>>>
>>>> Definition of is (Entry 1 of 4)
>>>>
>>>> present tense third-person singular of BE
>>>> <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/be>
>>>>
>>>> dialectal present tense first-person and third-person singular of BE
>>>> <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/be>
>>>>
>>>> dialectal present tense plural of BE
>>>> <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/be>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> is- combining form
>>>> <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/combining%20form>
>>>>
>>>> Definition of is- (Entry 4 of 4)
>>>>
>>>> 1: equal : homogeneous : uniform
>>>>
>>>> *THIRD*
>>>> *“the* (main)* reason* (AUTHORIALLY he ended up the way he did).” Is
>>>> the *OBJECT* of the primary statement.
>>>>
>>>> Essential Meaning of reason
>>>>
>>>> 1: a statement or fact that explains why something is the way it is,
>>>> why someone does, thinks, or says something, or why someone behaves a
>>>> certain way
>>>>
>>>> I gave a reason for my absence.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a reason for your strange behavior?
>>>>
>>>> So the statement’s OBJECT is the (authorial) explanation, or list of
>>>> causes and manners of, in all its details of the Ways and Why’s of Webb’s
>>>> END in ATD.
>>>>
>>>> Restated:  The horrifying death and the disrespect of his pre-burial
>>>> (in Jeshemon) and burial (with the *Union’s* meanest kind of
>>>> disrespect)  was written into the story the way that it was, or is
>>>> explained by the author to have happened because of Webb’s causing or
>>>> inviting or failing to prevent what became of Webb’s family.
>>>>
>>>> So, something that Webb caused before his death (we presume) to happen
>>>> to his family after his death was the cause of his own horrific death.
>>>> Would this be called a manifestation of Jiu-Jitsu Karma?  Or something???
>>>>
>>>> I think only an especially cruel God would play that fate game.
>>>>
>>>> David Morris
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 1:12 PM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> David,
>>>>>
>>>>> Since I am not making time to reread enough of AtD, although I did
>>>> reread those eight pages you put in my hip, I am asking your opinion of
>>>> this reading [interpretation] of Webb here re the union.
>>>>
>>>> Reading: What Webb let become of his family is the main reason
>>>> AUTHORIALLY he ended up the way he did. The way he died and was buried,
>>>> that is.
>>>>
>>>> Mark
>>>>
>>>