No comment although I have them.

[Mach Thomberi]

One might what.  I didn't quite get the jizz of that mindless schpieel.

Why can't we change it from the plist to the

TOTAL FUCKING KOHUT LIST.
On Oct 14, 2021 12:02 PM, "Mark Kohut" <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:

> Also, the US commitments to effect climate change, have been called by an
> outside organization, policies that match
> the recommendations as necessary, that if all countries were to commit to
> and do would meet the goal
> of staying under 2 degrees Celsius per the recent MAJOR, scary, UN
> Report.....
>
> That is, these policies meet the UN Report's recommendations to achieve the
> stated goal. One might think the admin
> talked to the UN as that report was being written---the science compiled
> over years, as we know--and met the guidelines. One might.....
>
> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 11:17 AM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>
> >  I don't have that clear a take on some imagined world majority  and I
> > wish I could sincerely agree but at this point I stand with Greta,  what
> we
> > hear from so called leaders is blah blah, blah, and what we see is
> growing
> > arms sales , continued growth in C02 emissions, threats  and violent
> > blockades by the US,  mass survellance, publishers being tortured for
> > publishing the same thing as the NY Times,  pipelines and a revived
> nuclear
> > arms program.  I could go on but what is the point.
> >    It’s true that there are many, many people who want change and they
> > gladden my heart as they do yours. They are not yet organized as an
> > effective agent of change though most do what they can. In the lead up to
> > the second Iraq war the world saw the biggest anti-war demonstration in
> > human history and the biggest global demonstration ever, rivaled only by
> > climate crisis activism. It did not stop the war and was barely covered
> in
> > the US press.
> >
> > On Oct 14, 2021, at 10:00 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I will assert as baldly as your assertions that the majority of the
> people
> > in the Pokey Little Puppy's Whole
> > Wide World are acting and imagining outside of this blanket condemnation:
> >  "imagine solutions than are not reliant on war, poisons and ecological
> > rape."
> >
> > Many businesses, many countries, with whatever else they are also doing,
> > are acting FINALLY against this 'reliance".
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 9:51 AM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
> >
> >> The historic creation of Israel is a subject that has already led to
> many
> >> many books and articles.  I have read quite a few of those books. What I
> >> said is what I said, and I wasn’t trying to ccomplish whatever you or
> >> mathew c think I should have been. But without a doubt the so-called
> >> creation of Israel has involved decades of assult on the Palestinians
> who
> >> lived there before the Jewish settlers came. It was as much an act of
> >> destruction and theft in my view as an act of creation. In the same way
> the
> >> “creation” of the US required a destructive assault on indiginous
> people.
> >> Israel seems to me to follow the biblical paradigm of Zionism layed out
> in
> >> the legends of Joshua and later David. I think that is clear enough and
> >> quite defensible as a proposition.
> >>
> >>  As far as I can tell most countries are acts of imagination  and
> >> violence based on tilling and armies, they are a product of the
> paradigm of
> >> war . National borders and rules are usually a lot more arbitrary than
> >> natural human self organizing and require leaders imposing taxes
> through
> >> violence. Since the advent of mass production and fossil fuels we have a
> >> new paradigm that combines the economic predations of investment
> capitalism
> >> with the military power or imperial alliances. This is quickly
> destroying
> >> the biospheric stability of the planet.  Our imaginations could be put
> to
> >> better use. We are not bound to follow our path of self destruction by
> >> anything other than unwillingness to face the problems  and imagine
> >> solutions than are not reliant on war, poisons and ecological rape.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > On Oct 14, 2021, at 7:49 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Joseph,
> >> >
> >> > Without distinctions, your generalities about all countries everywhere
> >> and when are always correct.
> >> > Yet say nothing substantive about the creation of Israel--or any other
> >> country for that matter.
> >> > And do little (or nothing) for discussion of all your Historic evils
> >> but show us a nice, beautifully-expressed personal credo--open to all:
> "the
> >> heart of this holy path is to choose life, to love the great mystery of
> >> being wih all the heart and all the mind and the very kernel of life we
> >> have been given, and to treat others as we wish to be treated.”
> >> Guess what. That is not a personal credo, Those are ideas from Judaism(
> >> The Torah and Maimonedes) which I appreciate and try to honor in my
> life.
> >> >
> >> > Mark
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 12:21 AM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net
> >> <mailto:brook7 at sover.net>> wrote:
> >> > Annihilation is a loaded word. It sounds cruel and violent. Truthfully
> >> though, a name or concept or form of government can be eliminated or
> >> replaced without destroying human lives or poisoning the earth. Nations
> and
> >> religions have changed and died before with little or even benign
> >> consequences. And those nations  that survived and rose to become “great
> >> powers" have a pretty shitty track record to justify themselves. Imagine
> >> all the people living life in peace.
> >> > I don’t know exactly what Thomberi ( sounds a made up name) is
> >> intending, whether tongue in cheek or weirdly sincere, but I think
> matthew
> >> c is wildly sentimentalizing how Israel came into being. As to what is
> to
> >> be done. It is a question for all of us, not just Israel. Settler
> >> colonialism and its cruelties are embedded in most of the world. Western
> >> civilization as configured has desertified vast parts of the globe,
> moved
> >> sane indiginous cultures into bantustans and is rapidly destroying the
> >> diverse species upon which life as we know it exists, rapidly moving us
> >> toward waves of mass destruction . As for me, yes i really am ready to
> hand
> >> over my land and the very concept of property to the tribal peoples of
> >> north america. Would they want this mess, our mini-flags, banks and
> >> fracking machines? I don’t know, but I could not be more serious about
> my
> >> acre of workspace , fruit trees, asparagus, maple trees, and stone
> walls.
> >> My whole life is about the effort to move myself and others toward an
> >> ecologically sustainable life, and the biggest impediment to change is
> the
> >> settler colonialist warfare that continues from the ancient to the
> modern
> >> world, that turns from warlordism to nationalism  to imperial warfare.
> What
> >> Israel and the US and China and Russia and Brazil and Canada and so many
> >> rapacious military dictatorships are expressing in this shared planet
> is
> >> varying forms of  sociopathic madness organized by  self destructive
> >> dreams, egomania, and imaginary polities that have ravaged our common
> sense
> >> as animals, our friendliness as neighbors, our ability to choose life
> above
> >> what they have too offer. And what do they have to offer as their
> >> civilization crumbles? Comfortable places to watch the world burn,
> endless
> >> entertaining air conditioned shitpiles, debt,  fat people eating big
> juicy
> >> hamburgers and an all too violent and real global annihilation, James
> Bond
> >> may or may not have lost his dick, but he stil has a license to kill.
> >> >
> >> >  Zionism is the same disease as the master race, manifest destiny,
> >> salafism, pax romana, capitalism, militarism. Its origins can be read by
> >> anyone. Joshua crosses into “ the promised land” to kill the sinful
> >> Canaanites or make them into slaves to the chosen people.”Blessed is he
> who
> >> dashes thy little ones against a stone”. This fable has become the
> script
> >> for modern day Israel, just as some version of this script has written
> so
> >> much human history. It will script global suicide if we let it. If we
> >> cannot prevent it.
> >> >
> >> > Zionism was never the remarkable part of Judaism, the heart of this
> >> holy path is to choose life, to love the great mystery of being wih all
> the
> >> heart and all the mind and the very kernel of life we have been given,
> and
> >> to treat others as we wish to be treated.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > On Oct 13, 2021, at 4:14 PM, matthew cissell <mccissell at gmail.com
> >> <mailto:mccissell at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Mach,
> >> > >
> >> > > So let me see. You seem to propose the annihilation of Israel, a
> >> country
> >> > > created whole cloth from ideas, dreams, stories and more by carving
> >> out a
> >> > > space for that community that had formed a nation but lacked a
> state.
> >> > >
> >> > > Ok. Two things (that I'll say) occur to me: What do you propose for
> >> the
> >> > > people? Do you have some... solution for them as well? Would it be
> >> the same
> >> > > for Arabic and Jewish citizens? What would it entail?
> >> > >
> >> > > Next: If you (and others that share your view) are the descendent of
> >> > > Europeans living in the Americas (or some other previously
> >> > > colonized place), I suppose you are also ready to 'undo' your county
> >> and
> >> > > hand over your land to the indigenous communities. Or are you
> writing
> >> from
> >> > > somewhere else, in which case we might talk about that place.
> >> > >
> >> > > Criticizing the trespasses of any country or government is one
> thing,
> >> but
> >> > > calling for its abolition is something else. The actions of the
> >> Israeli
> >> > > government have often been reprehensible or even criminal, but that
> >> does
> >> > > not justify your language, which would certainly find applause and
> >> echoes
> >> > > in a certain rising current in not only US political discourse but
> >> more
> >> > > widely.
> >> > >
> >> > > I'm responding not because I think your mind is likely to be changed
> >> but
> >> > > because I want you and others to know that in this open forum you
> >> will find
> >> > > voices that do not apathetically ignore your statements.
> >> > >
> >> > > Ne Obliviscaris
> >> > > Matthew Cissell
> >> > >
> >> > > On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 4:33 PM Mach Thomberi <
> machthomberi at gmail.com
> >> <mailto:machthomberi at gmail.com>>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >> No we wouldn't want that would we.  Deprive Israel water and
> >> medicine.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> What would be marvelous.  Would be removing Israel from the map.
> >> Cut it
> >> > >> out and dispense it into the ether.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Then do likewise of our collective memory of Israel.
> >> > >> On Oct 13, 2021 9:23 AM, "Joseph Tracy" <brook7 at sover.net <mailto:
> >> brook7 at sover.net>> wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>> I would not go so far as to cut Israelis off from medicine or
> clean
> >> water
> >> > >>> as they have done to Gaza, but a cultural boycott is potentially a
> >> way to
> >> > >>> bring the debate into a more public sphere. We need equally to
> >> confront
> >> > >>> what so many in the western press and politics  have done on this
> >> issue.
> >> > >>> They  have supported  the insane idea that anyone who publicly
> >> > >> criticizes
> >> > >>> Israel’s abuse of Palestinians is doing so out of  anti-semitism.
> >> They
> >> > >> are
> >> > >>> labeled  anti-semitic even if they are Jews whose parents and
> >> relatives
> >> > >>> survived or died  in Nazi concentration camps.
> >> > >>>  Sally Rooney said she would be honored to have her book
> translated
> >> to
> >> > >>> Hebrew but will not work with a publisher who does not distance
> >> > >> themselves
> >> > >>> from Israel’s aparteid treatment of Palestinians.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>> On Oct 11, 2021, at 3:44 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com
> >> <mailto:fqmorris at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> Why no comment?  This is a place for opinion.  As for me, I say
> >> > >> Bravo!  I
> >> > >>>> think Israel deserves full apartheid treatment right now.  And
> too
> >> many
> >> > >>>> people are afraid to say so.   There!  I said it.
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> David Morris
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 3:25 PM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com
> >> <mailto:mark.kohut at gmail.com>>
> >> > >> wrote:
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>> https://forward.com/opinion/476513/why-wont-sally-rooney- <
> >> https://forward.com/opinion/476513/why-wont-sally-rooney->
> >> > >>> allow-her-latest-novel-to-be-translated-into-hebrew/
> >> > >>>>> --
> >> > >>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>> --
> >> > >>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> --
> >> > >>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >> --
> >> > >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
> >> > >>
> >> > > --
> >> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >>
> >
> >
> --
> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>