No comment although I have them.

Thu Oct 14 20:48:02 UTC 2021

Because it isn't TOTAL. 😇

Let me FUCKING SIMPLIFY FOR YOU:

BIDEN ADMIN CLIMATE PROPOSALS FULFILL THE UN GOALS.

I will add that the admin has a TOTAL, speaking of totalizing, ALL OF
GOVERNMENT mandate re attacking climate change.
Worked into diplomacy, all other bills (if they can be), executive orders,
as has happened.

On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 3:52 PM Mach Thomberi <machthomberi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> One might what.  I didn't quite get the jizz of that mindless schpieel.
>
> Why can't we change it from the plist to the
>
> TOTAL FUCKING KOHUT LIST.
> On Oct 14, 2021 12:02 PM, "Mark Kohut" <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Also, the US commitments to effect climate change, have been called by an
>> outside organization, policies that match
>> the recommendations as necessary, that if all countries were to commit to
>> and do would meet the goal
>> of staying under 2 degrees Celsius per the recent MAJOR, scary, UN
>> Report.....
>>
>> That is, these policies meet the UN Report's recommendations to achieve
>> the
>> stated goal. One might think the admin
>> talked to the UN as that report was being written---the science compiled
>> over years, as we know--and met the guidelines. One might.....
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 11:17 AM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>>
>> >  I don't have that clear a take on some imagined world majority  and I
>> > wish I could sincerely agree but at this point I stand with Greta,
>> what we
>> > hear from so called leaders is blah blah, blah, and what we see is
>> growing
>> > arms sales , continued growth in C02 emissions, threats  and violent
>> > blockades by the US,  mass survellance, publishers being tortured for
>> > publishing the same thing as the NY Times,  pipelines and a revived
>> nuclear
>> > arms program.  I could go on but what is the point.
>> >    It’s true that there are many, many people who want change and they
>> > gladden my heart as they do yours. They are not yet organized as an
>> > effective agent of change though most do what they can. In the lead up
>> to
>> > the second Iraq war the world saw the biggest anti-war demonstration in
>> > human history and the biggest global demonstration ever, rivaled only by
>> > climate crisis activism. It did not stop the war and was barely covered
>> in
>> > the US press.
>> >
>> > On Oct 14, 2021, at 10:00 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > I will assert as baldly as your assertions that the majority of the
>> people
>> > in the Pokey Little Puppy's Whole
>> > Wide World are acting and imagining outside of this blanket
>> condemnation:
>> >  "imagine solutions than are not reliant on war, poisons and ecological
>> > rape."
>> >
>> > Many businesses, many countries, with whatever else they are also doing,
>> > are acting FINALLY against this 'reliance".
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 9:51 AM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> The historic creation of Israel is a subject that has already led to
>> many
>> >> many books and articles.  I have read quite a few of those books. What
>> I
>> >> said is what I said, and I wasn’t trying to ccomplish whatever you or
>> >> mathew c think I should have been. But without a doubt the so-called
>> >> creation of Israel has involved decades of assult on the Palestinians
>> who
>> >> lived there before the Jewish settlers came. It was as much an act of
>> >> destruction and theft in my view as an act of creation. In the same
>> way the
>> >> “creation” of the US required a destructive assault on indiginous
>> people.
>> >> Israel seems to me to follow the biblical paradigm of Zionism layed
>> out in
>> >> the legends of Joshua and later David. I think that is clear enough and
>> >> quite defensible as a proposition.
>> >>
>> >>  As far as I can tell most countries are acts of imagination  and
>> >> violence based on tilling and armies, they are a product of the
>> paradigm of
>> >> war . National borders and rules are usually a lot more arbitrary than
>> >> natural human self organizing and require leaders imposing taxes
>> through
>> >> violence. Since the advent of mass production and fossil fuels we have
>> a
>> >> new paradigm that combines the economic predations of investment
>> capitalism
>> >> with the military power or imperial alliances. This is quickly
>> destroying
>> >> the biospheric stability of the planet.  Our imaginations could be put
>> to
>> >> better use. We are not bound to follow our path of self destruction by
>> >> anything other than unwillingness to face the problems  and imagine
>> >> solutions than are not reliant on war, poisons and ecological rape.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > On Oct 14, 2021, at 7:49 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Joseph,
>> >> >
>> >> > Without distinctions, your generalities about all countries
>> everywhere
>> >> and when are always correct.
>> >> > Yet say nothing substantive about the creation of Israel--or any
>> other
>> >> country for that matter.
>> >> > And do little (or nothing) for discussion of all your Historic evils
>> >> but show us a nice, beautifully-expressed personal credo--open to all:
>> "the
>> >> heart of this holy path is to choose life, to love the great mystery of
>> >> being wih all the heart and all the mind and the very kernel of life we
>> >> have been given, and to treat others as we wish to be treated.”
>> >> Guess what. That is not a personal credo, Those are ideas from Judaism(
>> >> The Torah and Maimonedes) which I appreciate and try to honor in my
>> life.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mark
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 12:21 AM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net
>> >> <mailto:brook7 at sover.net>> wrote:
>> >> > Annihilation is a loaded word. It sounds cruel and violent.
>> Truthfully
>> >> though, a name or concept or form of government can be eliminated or
>> >> replaced without destroying human lives or poisoning the earth.
>> Nations and
>> >> religions have changed and died before with little or even benign
>> >> consequences. And those nations  that survived and rose to become
>> “great
>> >> powers" have a pretty shitty track record to justify themselves.
>> Imagine
>> >> all the people living life in peace.
>> >> > I don’t know exactly what Thomberi ( sounds a made up name) is
>> >> intending, whether tongue in cheek or weirdly sincere, but I think
>> matthew
>> >> c is wildly sentimentalizing how Israel came into being. As to what is
>> to
>> >> be done. It is a question for all of us, not just Israel. Settler
>> >> colonialism and its cruelties are embedded in most of the world.
>> Western
>> >> civilization as configured has desertified vast parts of the globe,
>> moved
>> >> sane indiginous cultures into bantustans and is rapidly destroying the
>> >> diverse species upon which life as we know it exists, rapidly moving us
>> >> toward waves of mass destruction . As for me, yes i really am ready to
>> hand
>> >> over my land and the very concept of property to the tribal peoples of
>> >> north america. Would they want this mess, our mini-flags, banks and
>> >> fracking machines? I don’t know, but I could not be more serious about
>> my
>> >> acre of workspace , fruit trees, asparagus, maple trees, and stone
>> walls.
>> >> My whole life is about the effort to move myself and others toward an
>> >> ecologically sustainable life, and the biggest impediment to change is
>> the
>> >> settler colonialist warfare that continues from the ancient to the
>> modern
>> >> world, that turns from warlordism to nationalism  to imperial warfare.
>> What
>> >> Israel and the US and China and Russia and Brazil and Canada and so
>> many
>> >> rapacious military dictatorships are expressing in this shared planet
>> is
>> >> varying forms of  sociopathic madness organized by  self destructive
>> >> dreams, egomania, and imaginary polities that have ravaged our common
>> sense
>> >> as animals, our friendliness as neighbors, our ability to choose life
>> above
>> >> what they have too offer. And what do they have to offer as their
>> >> civilization crumbles? Comfortable places to watch the world burn,
>> endless
>> >> entertaining air conditioned shitpiles, debt,  fat people eating big
>> juicy
>> >> hamburgers and an all too violent and real global annihilation, James
>> Bond
>> >> may or may not have lost his dick, but he stil has a license to kill.
>> >> >
>> >> >  Zionism is the same disease as the master race, manifest destiny,
>> >> salafism, pax romana, capitalism, militarism. Its origins can be read
>> by
>> >> anyone. Joshua crosses into “ the promised land” to kill the sinful
>> >> Canaanites or make them into slaves to the chosen people.”Blessed is
>> he who
>> >> dashes thy little ones against a stone”. This fable has become the
>> script
>> >> for modern day Israel, just as some version of this script has written
>> so
>> >> much human history. It will script global suicide if we let it. If we
>> >> cannot prevent it.
>> >> >
>> >> > Zionism was never the remarkable part of Judaism, the heart of this
>> >> holy path is to choose life, to love the great mystery of being wih
>> all the
>> >> heart and all the mind and the very kernel of life we have been given,
>> and
>> >> to treat others as we wish to be treated.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > > On Oct 13, 2021, at 4:14 PM, matthew cissell <mccissell at gmail.com
>> >> <mailto:mccissell at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Mach,
>> >> > >
>> >> > > So let me see. You seem to propose the annihilation of Israel, a
>> >> country
>> >> > > created whole cloth from ideas, dreams, stories and more by carving
>> >> out a
>> >> > > space for that community that had formed a nation but lacked a
>> state.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Ok. Two things (that I'll say) occur to me: What do you propose for
>> >> the
>> >> > > people? Do you have some... solution for them as well? Would it be
>> >> the same
>> >> > > for Arabic and Jewish citizens? What would it entail?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Next: If you (and others that share your view) are the descendent
>> of
>> >> > > Europeans living in the Americas (or some other previously
>> >> > > colonized place), I suppose you are also ready to 'undo' your
>> county
>> >> and
>> >> > > hand over your land to the indigenous communities. Or are you
>> writing
>> >> from
>> >> > > somewhere else, in which case we might talk about that place.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Criticizing the trespasses of any country or government is one
>> thing,
>> >> but
>> >> > > calling for its abolition is something else. The actions of the
>> >> Israeli
>> >> > > government have often been reprehensible or even criminal, but that
>> >> does
>> >> > > not justify your language, which would certainly find applause and
>> >> echoes
>> >> > > in a certain rising current in not only US political discourse but
>> >> more
>> >> > > widely.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I'm responding not because I think your mind is likely to be
>> changed
>> >> but
>> >> > > because I want you and others to know that in this open forum you
>> >> will find
>> >> > > voices that do not apathetically ignore your statements.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Ne Obliviscaris
>> >> > > Matthew Cissell
>> >> > >
>> >> > > On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 4:33 PM Mach Thomberi <
>> machthomberi at gmail.com
>> >> <mailto:machthomberi at gmail.com>>
>> >> > > wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > >> No we wouldn't want that would we.  Deprive Israel water and
>> >> medicine.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> What would be marvelous.  Would be removing Israel from the map.
>> >> Cut it
>> >> > >> out and dispense it into the ether.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Then do likewise of our collective memory of Israel.
>> >> > >> On Oct 13, 2021 9:23 AM, "Joseph Tracy" <brook7 at sover.net
>> <mailto:
>> >> brook7 at sover.net>> wrote:
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>> I would not go so far as to cut Israelis off from medicine or
>> clean
>> >> water
>> >> > >>> as they have done to Gaza, but a cultural boycott is potentially
>> a
>> >> way to
>> >> > >>> bring the debate into a more public sphere. We need equally to
>> >> confront
>> >> > >>> what so many in the western press and politics  have done on this
>> >> issue.
>> >> > >>> They  have supported  the insane idea that anyone who publicly
>> >> > >> criticizes
>> >> > >>> Israel’s abuse of Palestinians is doing so out of  anti-semitism.
>> >> They
>> >> > >> are
>> >> > >>> labeled  anti-semitic even if they are Jews whose parents and
>> >> relatives
>> >> > >>> survived or died  in Nazi concentration camps.
>> >> > >>>  Sally Rooney said she would be honored to have her book
>> translated
>> >> to
>> >> > >>> Hebrew but will not work with a publisher who does not distance
>> >> > >> themselves
>> >> > >>> from Israel’s aparteid treatment of Palestinians.
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>>> On Oct 11, 2021, at 3:44 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com
>> >> <mailto:fqmorris at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>> Why no comment?  This is a place for opinion.  As for me, I say
>> >> > >> Bravo!  I
>> >> > >>>> think Israel deserves full apartheid treatment right now.  And
>> too
>> >> many
>> >> > >>>> people are afraid to say so.   There!  I said it.
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>> David Morris
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>> On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 3:25 PM Mark Kohut <
>> mark.kohut at gmail.com
>> >> <mailto:mark.kohut at gmail.com>>
>> >> > >> wrote:
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>> https://forward.com/opinion/476513/why-wont-sally-rooney- <
>> >> https://forward.com/opinion/476513/why-wont-sally-rooney->
>> >> > >>> allow-her-latest-novel-to-be-translated-into-hebrew/
>> >> > >>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>> --
>> >> > >>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>> --
>> >> > >>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >> --
>> >> > >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > > --
>> >> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> --
>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>
>