No comment although I have them.

[Mark Kohut]

Nah, I think I'm more the kidney, too occasionally the spleen.

Go in peace.

On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Mach Thomberi <machthomberi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Mark, come on, you are the god of plist.
>
> It would not exist without you.
>
> You are a Titan.
>
> You make light in a world of darkness.
>
> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 4:14 PM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Take care.
>>
>> I do not think I am what you say about the plist. He is buried in
>> Milwaukee, with a seat in his name at his favorite movie theater.
>>
>> I just 1) usually respond.    2) like to send some stuff I find that
>> might interest and might lead to discussion.
>>
>> I am away from it for days and weeks at a time. Monroe never was.
>>
>> I'm sorry for your turmoil and loss.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:10 PM Mach Thomberi <machthomberi at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> We all know that you are the heart and soul of plist, Mark.  Without you
>>> it would be the nonplist.
>>>
>>> As I sat down to write this, your email came in.  As I am writing it,
>>> there is one from Morrrs.  Which I'll receive after this.
>>>
>>> The most amazing thing happened.  I left my woman a few days ago..  And
>>> in doing so, I told her that I can no longer bare her rage.
>>>
>>> Fair enough.  I was being the cool guy in leaving..  Then I got this
>>> email, from you idiots.  Saying something about Israel.  And it is obvious,
>>> that, something, like rage, fell forth.  I was telling her about her rage,
>>> when then something, emanated.  Perhaps there is something within me.
>>> Maybe we suppress it.
>>>
>>> The timing of it was exquisite.
>>>
>>> And everything I say is true.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 3:48 PM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Because it isn't TOTAL. 😇
>>>>
>>>> Let me FUCKING SIMPLIFY FOR YOU:
>>>>
>>>> BIDEN ADMIN CLIMATE PROPOSALS FULFILL THE UN GOALS.
>>>>
>>>> I will add that the admin has a TOTAL, speaking of totalizing, ALL OF
>>>> GOVERNMENT mandate re attacking climate change.
>>>> Worked into diplomacy, all other bills (if they can be), executive
>>>> orders, as has happened.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 3:52 PM Mach Thomberi <machthomberi at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> One might what.  I didn't quite get the jizz of that mindless schpieel.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why can't we change it from the plist to the
>>>>>
>>>>> TOTAL FUCKING KOHUT LIST.
>>>>> On Oct 14, 2021 12:02 PM, "Mark Kohut" <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, the US commitments to effect climate change, have been called
>>>>>> by an
>>>>>> outside organization, policies that match
>>>>>> the recommendations as necessary, that if all countries were to
>>>>>> commit to
>>>>>> and do would meet the goal
>>>>>> of staying under 2 degrees Celsius per the recent MAJOR, scary, UN
>>>>>> Report.....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is, these policies meet the UN Report's recommendations to
>>>>>> achieve the
>>>>>> stated goal. One might think the admin
>>>>>> talked to the UN as that report was being written---the science
>>>>>> compiled
>>>>>> over years, as we know--and met the guidelines. One might.....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 11:17 AM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >  I don't have that clear a take on some imagined world majority
>>>>>> and I
>>>>>> > wish I could sincerely agree but at this point I stand with Greta,
>>>>>> what we
>>>>>> > hear from so called leaders is blah blah, blah, and what we see is
>>>>>> growing
>>>>>> > arms sales , continued growth in C02 emissions, threats  and violent
>>>>>> > blockades by the US,  mass survellance, publishers being tortured
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> > publishing the same thing as the NY Times,  pipelines and a revived
>>>>>> nuclear
>>>>>> > arms program.  I could go on but what is the point.
>>>>>> >    It’s true that there are many, many people who want change and
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> > gladden my heart as they do yours. They are not yet organized as an
>>>>>> > effective agent of change though most do what they can. In the lead
>>>>>> up to
>>>>>> > the second Iraq war the world saw the biggest anti-war
>>>>>> demonstration in
>>>>>> > human history and the biggest global demonstration ever, rivaled
>>>>>> only by
>>>>>> > climate crisis activism. It did not stop the war and was barely
>>>>>> covered in
>>>>>> > the US press.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On Oct 14, 2021, at 10:00 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I will assert as baldly as your assertions that the majority of the
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> > in the Pokey Little Puppy's Whole
>>>>>> > Wide World are acting and imagining outside of this blanket
>>>>>> condemnation:
>>>>>> >  "imagine solutions than are not reliant on war, poisons and
>>>>>> ecological
>>>>>> > rape."
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Many businesses, many countries, with whatever else they are also
>>>>>> doing,
>>>>>> > are acting FINALLY against this 'reliance".
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 9:51 AM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> The historic creation of Israel is a subject that has already led
>>>>>> to many
>>>>>> >> many books and articles.  I have read quite a few of those books.
>>>>>> What I
>>>>>> >> said is what I said, and I wasn’t trying to ccomplish whatever you
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> >> mathew c think I should have been. But without a doubt the
>>>>>> so-called
>>>>>> >> creation of Israel has involved decades of assult on the
>>>>>> Palestinians who
>>>>>> >> lived there before the Jewish settlers came. It was as much an act
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> >> destruction and theft in my view as an act of creation. In the
>>>>>> same way the
>>>>>> >> “creation” of the US required a destructive assault on indiginous
>>>>>> people.
>>>>>> >> Israel seems to me to follow the biblical paradigm of Zionism
>>>>>> layed out in
>>>>>> >> the legends of Joshua and later David. I think that is clear
>>>>>> enough and
>>>>>> >> quite defensible as a proposition.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>  As far as I can tell most countries are acts of imagination  and
>>>>>> >> violence based on tilling and armies, they are a product of the
>>>>>> paradigm of
>>>>>> >> war . National borders and rules are usually a lot more arbitrary
>>>>>> than
>>>>>> >> natural human self organizing and require leaders imposing taxes
>>>>>> through
>>>>>> >> violence. Since the advent of mass production and fossil fuels we
>>>>>> have a
>>>>>> >> new paradigm that combines the economic predations of investment
>>>>>> capitalism
>>>>>> >> with the military power or imperial alliances. This is quickly
>>>>>> destroying
>>>>>> >> the biospheric stability of the planet.  Our imaginations could be
>>>>>> put to
>>>>>> >> better use. We are not bound to follow our path of self
>>>>>> destruction by
>>>>>> >> anything other than unwillingness to face the problems  and imagine
>>>>>> >> solutions than are not reliant on war, poisons and ecological rape.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> > On Oct 14, 2021, at 7:49 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > Joseph,
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > Without distinctions, your generalities about all countries
>>>>>> everywhere
>>>>>> >> and when are always correct.
>>>>>> >> > Yet say nothing substantive about the creation of Israel--or any
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> >> country for that matter.
>>>>>> >> > And do little (or nothing) for discussion of all your Historic
>>>>>> evils
>>>>>> >> but show us a nice, beautifully-expressed personal credo--open to
>>>>>> all: "the
>>>>>> >> heart of this holy path is to choose life, to love the great
>>>>>> mystery of
>>>>>> >> being wih all the heart and all the mind and the very kernel of
>>>>>> life we
>>>>>> >> have been given, and to treat others as we wish to be treated.”
>>>>>> >> Guess what. That is not a personal credo, Those are ideas from
>>>>>> Judaism(
>>>>>> >> The Torah and Maimonedes) which I appreciate and try to honor in
>>>>>> my life.
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > Mark
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 12:21 AM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net
>>>>>> >> <mailto:brook7 at sover.net>> wrote:
>>>>>> >> > Annihilation is a loaded word. It sounds cruel and violent.
>>>>>> Truthfully
>>>>>> >> though, a name or concept or form of government can be eliminated
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> >> replaced without destroying human lives or poisoning the earth.
>>>>>> Nations and
>>>>>> >> religions have changed and died before with little or even benign
>>>>>> >> consequences. And those nations  that survived and rose to become
>>>>>> “great
>>>>>> >> powers" have a pretty shitty track record to justify themselves.
>>>>>> Imagine
>>>>>> >> all the people living life in peace.
>>>>>> >> > I don’t know exactly what Thomberi ( sounds a made up name) is
>>>>>> >> intending, whether tongue in cheek or weirdly sincere, but I think
>>>>>> matthew
>>>>>> >> c is wildly sentimentalizing how Israel came into being. As to
>>>>>> what is to
>>>>>> >> be done. It is a question for all of us, not just Israel. Settler
>>>>>> >> colonialism and its cruelties are embedded in most of the world.
>>>>>> Western
>>>>>> >> civilization as configured has desertified vast parts of the
>>>>>> globe, moved
>>>>>> >> sane indiginous cultures into bantustans and is rapidly destroying
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >> diverse species upon which life as we know it exists, rapidly
>>>>>> moving us
>>>>>> >> toward waves of mass destruction . As for me, yes i really am
>>>>>> ready to hand
>>>>>> >> over my land and the very concept of property to the tribal
>>>>>> peoples of
>>>>>> >> north america. Would they want this mess, our mini-flags, banks and
>>>>>> >> fracking machines? I don’t know, but I could not be more serious
>>>>>> about my
>>>>>> >> acre of workspace , fruit trees, asparagus, maple trees, and stone
>>>>>> walls.
>>>>>> >> My whole life is about the effort to move myself and others toward
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> >> ecologically sustainable life, and the biggest impediment to
>>>>>> change is the
>>>>>> >> settler colonialist warfare that continues from the ancient to the
>>>>>> modern
>>>>>> >> world, that turns from warlordism to nationalism  to imperial
>>>>>> warfare. What
>>>>>> >> Israel and the US and China and Russia and Brazil and Canada and
>>>>>> so many
>>>>>> >> rapacious military dictatorships are expressing in this shared
>>>>>> planet  is
>>>>>> >> varying forms of  sociopathic madness organized by  self
>>>>>> destructive
>>>>>> >> dreams, egomania, and imaginary polities that have ravaged our
>>>>>> common sense
>>>>>> >> as animals, our friendliness as neighbors, our ability to choose
>>>>>> life above
>>>>>> >> what they have too offer. And what do they have to offer as their
>>>>>> >> civilization crumbles? Comfortable places to watch the world burn,
>>>>>> endless
>>>>>> >> entertaining air conditioned shitpiles, debt,  fat people eating
>>>>>> big juicy
>>>>>> >> hamburgers and an all too violent and real global annihilation,
>>>>>> James Bond
>>>>>> >> may or may not have lost his dick, but he stil has a license to
>>>>>> kill.
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> >  Zionism is the same disease as the master race, manifest
>>>>>> destiny,
>>>>>> >> salafism, pax romana, capitalism, militarism. Its origins can be
>>>>>> read by
>>>>>> >> anyone. Joshua crosses into “ the promised land” to kill the sinful
>>>>>> >> Canaanites or make them into slaves to the chosen people.”Blessed
>>>>>> is he who
>>>>>> >> dashes thy little ones against a stone”. This fable has become the
>>>>>> script
>>>>>> >> for modern day Israel, just as some version of this script has
>>>>>> written so
>>>>>> >> much human history. It will script global suicide if we let it. If
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> >> cannot prevent it.
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > Zionism was never the remarkable part of Judaism, the heart of
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> >> holy path is to choose life, to love the great mystery of being
>>>>>> wih all the
>>>>>> >> heart and all the mind and the very kernel of life we have been
>>>>>> given, and
>>>>>> >> to treat others as we wish to be treated.
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > > On Oct 13, 2021, at 4:14 PM, matthew cissell <
>>>>>> mccissell at gmail.com
>>>>>> >> <mailto:mccissell at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> >> > >
>>>>>> >> > > Mach,
>>>>>> >> > >
>>>>>> >> > > So let me see. You seem to propose the annihilation of Israel,
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> >> country
>>>>>> >> > > created whole cloth from ideas, dreams, stories and more by
>>>>>> carving
>>>>>> >> out a
>>>>>> >> > > space for that community that had formed a nation but lacked a
>>>>>> state.
>>>>>> >> > >
>>>>>> >> > > Ok. Two things (that I'll say) occur to me: What do you
>>>>>> propose for
>>>>>> >> the
>>>>>> >> > > people? Do you have some... solution for them as well? Would
>>>>>> it be
>>>>>> >> the same
>>>>>> >> > > for Arabic and Jewish citizens? What would it entail?
>>>>>> >> > >
>>>>>> >> > > Next: If you (and others that share your view) are the
>>>>>> descendent of
>>>>>> >> > > Europeans living in the Americas (or some other previously
>>>>>> >> > > colonized place), I suppose you are also ready to 'undo' your
>>>>>> county
>>>>>> >> and
>>>>>> >> > > hand over your land to the indigenous communities. Or are you
>>>>>> writing
>>>>>> >> from
>>>>>> >> > > somewhere else, in which case we might talk about that place.
>>>>>> >> > >
>>>>>> >> > > Criticizing the trespasses of any country or government is one
>>>>>> thing,
>>>>>> >> but
>>>>>> >> > > calling for its abolition is something else. The actions of the
>>>>>> >> Israeli
>>>>>> >> > > government have often been reprehensible or even criminal, but
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> >> does
>>>>>> >> > > not justify your language, which would certainly find applause
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> >> echoes
>>>>>> >> > > in a certain rising current in not only US political discourse
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> >> more
>>>>>> >> > > widely.
>>>>>> >> > >
>>>>>> >> > > I'm responding not because I think your mind is likely to be
>>>>>> changed
>>>>>> >> but
>>>>>> >> > > because I want you and others to know that in this open forum
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> >> will find
>>>>>> >> > > voices that do not apathetically ignore your statements.
>>>>>> >> > >
>>>>>> >> > > Ne Obliviscaris
>>>>>> >> > > Matthew Cissell
>>>>>> >> > >
>>>>>> >> > > On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 4:33 PM Mach Thomberi <
>>>>>> machthomberi at gmail.com
>>>>>> >> <mailto:machthomberi at gmail.com>>
>>>>>> >> > > wrote:
>>>>>> >> > >
>>>>>> >> > >> No we wouldn't want that would we.  Deprive Israel water and
>>>>>> >> medicine.
>>>>>> >> > >>
>>>>>> >> > >> What would be marvelous.  Would be removing Israel from the
>>>>>> map.
>>>>>> >> Cut it
>>>>>> >> > >> out and dispense it into the ether.
>>>>>> >> > >>
>>>>>> >> > >> Then do likewise of our collective memory of Israel.
>>>>>> >> > >> On Oct 13, 2021 9:23 AM, "Joseph Tracy" <brook7 at sover.net
>>>>>> <mailto:
>>>>>> >> brook7 at sover.net>> wrote:
>>>>>> >> > >>
>>>>>> >> > >>> I would not go so far as to cut Israelis off from medicine
>>>>>> or clean
>>>>>> >> water
>>>>>> >> > >>> as they have done to Gaza, but a cultural boycott is
>>>>>> potentially a
>>>>>> >> way to
>>>>>> >> > >>> bring the debate into a more public sphere. We need equally
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> >> confront
>>>>>> >> > >>> what so many in the western press and politics  have done on
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> >> issue.
>>>>>> >> > >>> They  have supported  the insane idea that anyone who
>>>>>> publicly
>>>>>> >> > >> criticizes
>>>>>> >> > >>> Israel’s abuse of Palestinians is doing so out of
>>>>>> anti-semitism.
>>>>>> >> They
>>>>>> >> > >> are
>>>>>> >> > >>> labeled  anti-semitic even if they are Jews whose parents and
>>>>>> >> relatives
>>>>>> >> > >>> survived or died  in Nazi concentration camps.
>>>>>> >> > >>>  Sally Rooney said she would be honored to have her book
>>>>>> translated
>>>>>> >> to
>>>>>> >> > >>> Hebrew but will not work with a publisher who does not
>>>>>> distance
>>>>>> >> > >> themselves
>>>>>> >> > >>> from Israel’s aparteid treatment of Palestinians.
>>>>>> >> > >>>
>>>>>> >> > >>>> On Oct 11, 2021, at 3:44 PM, David Morris <
>>>>>> fqmorris at gmail.com
>>>>>> >> <mailto:fqmorris at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> >> > >>>>
>>>>>> >> > >>>> Why no comment?  This is a place for opinion.  As for me, I
>>>>>> say
>>>>>> >> > >> Bravo!  I
>>>>>> >> > >>>> think Israel deserves full apartheid treatment right now.
>>>>>> And too
>>>>>> >> many
>>>>>> >> > >>>> people are afraid to say so.   There!  I said it.
>>>>>> >> > >>>>
>>>>>> >> > >>>> David Morris
>>>>>> >> > >>>>
>>>>>> >> > >>>> On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 3:25 PM Mark Kohut <
>>>>>> mark.kohut at gmail.com
>>>>>> >> <mailto:mark.kohut at gmail.com>>
>>>>>> >> > >> wrote:
>>>>>> >> > >>>>
>>>>>> >> > >>>>>
>>>>>> >> > >>>>> https://forward.com/opinion/476513/why-wont-sally-rooney-
>>>>>> <
>>>>>> >> https://forward.com/opinion/476513/why-wont-sally-rooney->
>>>>>> >> > >>> allow-her-latest-novel-to-be-translated-into-hebrew/
>>>>>> >> > >>>>> --
>>>>>> >> > >>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>>>>>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>>>>>> >> > >>>>>
>>>>>> >> > >>>> --
>>>>>> >> > >>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>>>>>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>>>>>> >> > >>>>
>>>>>> >> > >>>
>>>>>> >> > >>>
>>>>>> >> > >>>
>>>>>> >> > >>> --
>>>>>> >> > >>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>>>>>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>>>>>> >> > >>>
>>>>>> >> > >> --
>>>>>> >> > >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>>>>>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>>>>>> >> > >>
>>>>>> >> > > --
>>>>>> >> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>>>>>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > --
>>>>>> >> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>>>>>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> --
>>>>>> >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>>>>
>>>>>