No comment although I have them.
Ian Livingston
igrlivingston at gmail.com
Fri Oct 15 02:13:37 UTC 2021
Why? What is born of light?
On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:22 PM Mach Thomberi <machthomberi at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Now enough dick stroking. Who wants to talk Israel? No one but old
> people.
>
> Or maybe rather than that cesspool of grit and vagabondage (Israel), speak
> of something that has light in it.
>
> Something that is not, Israel. Not darkness.
>
> An illumination of light, that is making light, make light.
>
> We are here.
>
> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 7:08 PM Mach Thomberi <machthomberi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > That is awesome. Thank you David.
> >
> > You too are the god of this list.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 6:28 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks for the playlist. I’ve been totally removed from almost all new
> >> music these last few years. So an injection like this is good.
> >>
> >> But now, after listening to the first two songs, I catch your gist.
> >> About six years ago I had a very bad break up after 30 years married.
> She
> >> was harsh beyond words, and tried to literally destroy my life. I only
> >> made it through with the help of my closest family and a few friends.
> This
> >> was the song I most remember from that time:
> >>
> >> https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCFC9LamNMmLioW643VZ40OA
> >>
> >> Gotye - Somebody That I Used To Know (feat. Kimbra) [Official Music
> Video]
> >>
> >> David Morris
> >>
> >> Good Luck
> >>
> >> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 6:52 PM Mach Thomberi <machthomberi at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> https://youtu.be/9TQKyDD9Yig
> >>
> >>
> >> <https://youtu.be/9TQKyDD9Yig>
> >>
> >> Mabel: Smart and snappy pop. Words right to the point. I like it.
> >>
> >> https://youtu.be/cw_L8HdoYgo
> >>>
> >>> https://youtu.be/OCyL6pa_L4M
> >>>
> >>> https://youtu.be/YpJAmlnBxoA
> >>>
> >>> https://youtu.be/PmAglGdibYs
> >>>
> >>> https://youtu.be/VkKxmnrRVHo
> >>>
> >>> https://youtu.be/4XaKR_svmMM
> >>>
> >>> https://youtu.be/CevxZvSJLk8
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:48 PM Mach Thomberi <machthomberi at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > https://youtu.be/8N2k-gv6xNE
> >>> >
> >>> > https://youtu.be/mqFLXayD6e8
> >>> >
> >>> > https://youtu.be/dgjTO5eAbZY
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:46 PM Mach Thomberi <
> machthomberi at gmail.com>
> >>> > wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> https://youtu.be/kHue-HaXXzg
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:45 PM Mach Thomberi <
> machthomberi at gmail.com
> >>> >
> >>> >> wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >>> I don't get these songs. I have not even listened to them.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> How they relate to Pynchon, well I might know if she didn't have
> all
> >>> my
> >>> >>> books.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:38 PM Mach Thomberi <
> >>> machthomberi at gmail.com>
> >>> >>> wrote:
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>> I told my ex, because I couldn't stand the incessant texts--oh
> here
> >>> is
> >>> >>>> another one--that are mind and soul numbing iterations of sheer
> >>> >>>> obtuse rage, to try contacting me irather in songs.
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> Which she has proceeded in doing...
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:13 PM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
> >>> >>>> wrote:
> >>> >>>>
> >>> >>>>> Nah, I think I'm more the kidney, too occasionally the spleen.
> >>> >>>>>
> >>> >>>>> Go in peace.
> >>> >>>>>
> >>> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Mach Thomberi <
> >>> machthomberi at gmail.com>
> >>> >>>>> wrote:
> >>> >>>>>
> >>> >>>>>> Mark, come on, you are the god of plist.
> >>> >>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>> It would not exist without you.
> >>> >>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>> You are a Titan.
> >>> >>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>> You make light in a world of darkness.
> >>> >>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 4:14 PM Mark Kohut <
> mark.kohut at gmail.com>
> >>> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>> >>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>> Take care.
> >>> >>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>> I do not think I am what you say about the plist. He is buried
> in
> >>> >>>>>>> Milwaukee, with a seat in his name at his favorite movie
> theater.
> >>> >>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>> I just 1) usually respond. 2) like to send some stuff I find
> >>> that
> >>> >>>>>>> might interest and might lead to discussion.
> >>> >>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>> I am away from it for days and weeks at a time. Monroe never
> was.
> >>> >>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>> I'm sorry for your turmoil and loss.
> >>> >>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>> Mark
> >>> >>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:10 PM Mach Thomberi <
> >>> >>>>>>> machthomberi at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>> We all know that you are the heart and soul of plist, Mark.
> >>> >>>>>>>> Without you it would be the nonplist.
> >>> >>>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>> As I sat down to write this, your email came in. As I am
> >>> writing
> >>> >>>>>>>> it, there is one from Morrrs. Which I'll receive after this.
> >>> >>>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>> The most amazing thing happened. I left my woman a few days
> >>> ago..
> >>> >>>>>>>> And in doing so, I told her that I can no longer bare her
> rage.
> >>> >>>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>> Fair enough. I was being the cool guy in leaving.. Then I
> got
> >>> >>>>>>>> this email, from you idiots. Saying something about Israel.
> >>> And it is
> >>> >>>>>>>> obvious, that, something, like rage, fell forth. I was
> telling
> >>> her about
> >>> >>>>>>>> her rage, when then something, emanated. Perhaps there is
> >>> something within
> >>> >>>>>>>> me. Maybe we suppress it.
> >>> >>>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>> The timing of it was exquisite.
> >>> >>>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>> And everything I say is true.
> >>> >>>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 3:48 PM Mark Kohut <
> >>> mark.kohut at gmail.com>
> >>> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>> >>>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>> Because it isn't TOTAL. 😇
> >>> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>> Let me FUCKING SIMPLIFY FOR YOU:
> >>> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>> BIDEN ADMIN CLIMATE PROPOSALS FULFILL THE UN GOALS.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>> I will add that the admin has a TOTAL, speaking of
> totalizing,
> >>> ALL
> >>> >>>>>>>>> OF GOVERNMENT mandate re attacking climate change.
> >>> >>>>>>>>> Worked into diplomacy, all other bills (if they can be),
> >>> executive
> >>> >>>>>>>>> orders, as has happened.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 3:52 PM Mach Thomberi <
> >>> >>>>>>>>> machthomberi at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>> One might what. I didn't quite get the jizz of that
> mindless
> >>> >>>>>>>>>> schpieel.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>> Why can't we change it from the plist to the
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>> TOTAL FUCKING KOHUT LIST.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>> On Oct 14, 2021 12:02 PM, "Mark Kohut" <
> mark.kohut at gmail.com>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Also, the US commitments to effect climate change, have
> been
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> called by an
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> outside organization, policies that match
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> the recommendations as necessary, that if all countries
> were
> >>> to
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> commit to
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> and do would meet the goal
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> of staying under 2 degrees Celsius per the recent MAJOR,
> >>> scary,
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> UN
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Report.....
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> That is, these policies meet the UN Report's
> recommendations
> >>> to
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> achieve the
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> stated goal. One might think the admin
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> talked to the UN as that report was being written---the
> >>> science
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> compiled
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> over years, as we know--and met the guidelines. One
> >>> might.....
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 11:17 AM Joseph Tracy <
> >>> brook7 at sover.net>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > I don't have that clear a take on some imagined world
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> majority and I
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > wish I could sincerely agree but at this point I stand
> with
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Greta, what we
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > hear from so called leaders is blah blah, blah, and what
> we
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> see is growing
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > arms sales , continued growth in C02 emissions, threats
> >>> and
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> violent
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > blockades by the US, mass survellance, publishers being
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> tortured for
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > publishing the same thing as the NY Times, pipelines
> and a
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> revived nuclear
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > arms program. I could go on but what is the point.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > It’s true that there are many, many people who want
> >>> change
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> and they
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > gladden my heart as they do yours. They are not yet
> >>> organized
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> as an
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > effective agent of change though most do what they can.
> In
> >>> the
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> lead up to
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > the second Iraq war the world saw the biggest anti-war
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> demonstration in
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > human history and the biggest global demonstration ever,
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> rivaled only by
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > climate crisis activism. It did not stop the war and was
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> barely covered in
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > the US press.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > On Oct 14, 2021, at 10:00 AM, Mark Kohut <
> >>> mark.kohut at gmail.com>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > I will assert as baldly as your assertions that the
> >>> majority
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> of the people
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > in the Pokey Little Puppy's Whole
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > Wide World are acting and imagining outside of this
> blanket
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> condemnation:
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > "imagine solutions than are not reliant on war, poisons
> >>> and
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> ecological
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > rape."
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > Many businesses, many countries, with whatever else they
> >>> are
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> also doing,
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > are acting FINALLY against this 'reliance".
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> > On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 9:51 AM Joseph Tracy <
> >>> brook7 at sover.net>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> The historic creation of Israel is a subject that has
> >>> already
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> led to many
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> many books and articles. I have read quite a few of
> those
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> books. What I
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> said is what I said, and I wasn’t trying to ccomplish
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> whatever you or
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> mathew c think I should have been. But without a doubt
> the
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> so-called
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> creation of Israel has involved decades of assult on the
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Palestinians who
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> lived there before the Jewish settlers came. It was as
> >>> much
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> an act of
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> destruction and theft in my view as an act of creation.
> In
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> the same way the
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> “creation” of the US required a destructive assault on
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> indiginous people.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> Israel seems to me to follow the biblical paradigm of
> >>> Zionism
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> layed out in
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> the legends of Joshua and later David. I think that is
> >>> clear
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> enough and
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> quite defensible as a proposition.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> As far as I can tell most countries are acts of
> >>> imagination
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> and
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> violence based on tilling and armies, they are a product
> >>> of
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> the paradigm of
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> war . National borders and rules are usually a lot more
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> arbitrary than
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> natural human self organizing and require leaders
> imposing
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> taxes through
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> violence. Since the advent of mass production and fossil
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> fuels we have a
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> new paradigm that combines the economic predations of
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> investment capitalism
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> with the military power or imperial alliances. This is
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> quickly destroying
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> the biospheric stability of the planet. Our
> imaginations
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> could be put to
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> better use. We are not bound to follow our path of self
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> destruction by
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> anything other than unwillingness to face the problems
> >>> and
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> imagine
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> solutions than are not reliant on war, poisons and
> >>> ecological
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> rape.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > On Oct 14, 2021, at 7:49 AM, Mark Kohut <
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > Joseph,
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > Without distinctions, your generalities about all
> >>> countries
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> everywhere
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> and when are always correct.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > Yet say nothing substantive about the creation of
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Israel--or any other
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> country for that matter.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > And do little (or nothing) for discussion of all your
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Historic evils
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> but show us a nice, beautifully-expressed personal
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> credo--open to all: "the
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> heart of this holy path is to choose life, to love the
> >>> great
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> mystery of
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> being wih all the heart and all the mind and the very
> >>> kernel
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> of life we
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> have been given, and to treat others as we wish to be
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> treated.”
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> Guess what. That is not a personal credo, Those are
> ideas
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> from Judaism(
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> The Torah and Maimonedes) which I appreciate and try to
> >>> honor
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> in my life.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > Mark
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 12:21 AM Joseph Tracy <
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> brook7 at sover.net
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> <mailto:brook7 at sover.net>> wrote:
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > Annihilation is a loaded word. It sounds cruel and
> >>> violent.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Truthfully
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> though, a name or concept or form of government can be
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> eliminated or
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> replaced without destroying human lives or poisoning the
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> earth. Nations and
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> religions have changed and died before with little or
> even
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> benign
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> consequences. And those nations that survived and rose
> to
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> become “great
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> powers" have a pretty shitty track record to justify
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> themselves. Imagine
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> all the people living life in peace.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > I don’t know exactly what Thomberi ( sounds a made up
> >>> name)
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> is
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> intending, whether tongue in cheek or weirdly sincere,
> >>> but I
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> think matthew
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> c is wildly sentimentalizing how Israel came into being.
> >>> As
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> to what is to
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> be done. It is a question for all of us, not just
> Israel.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Settler
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> colonialism and its cruelties are embedded in most of
> the
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> world. Western
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> civilization as configured has desertified vast parts of
> >>> the
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> globe, moved
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> sane indiginous cultures into bantustans and is rapidly
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> destroying the
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> diverse species upon which life as we know it exists,
> >>> rapidly
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> moving us
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> toward waves of mass destruction . As for me, yes i
> >>> really am
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> ready to hand
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> over my land and the very concept of property to the
> >>> tribal
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> peoples of
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> north america. Would they want this mess, our
> mini-flags,
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> banks and
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> fracking machines? I don’t know, but I could not be more
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> serious about my
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> acre of workspace , fruit trees, asparagus, maple trees,
> >>> and
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> stone walls.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> My whole life is about the effort to move myself and
> >>> others
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> toward an
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> ecologically sustainable life, and the biggest
> impediment
> >>> to
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> change is the
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> settler colonialist warfare that continues from the
> >>> ancient
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> to the modern
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> world, that turns from warlordism to nationalism to
> >>> imperial
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> warfare. What
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> Israel and the US and China and Russia and Brazil and
> >>> Canada
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> and so many
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> rapacious military dictatorships are expressing in this
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> shared planet is
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> varying forms of sociopathic madness organized by self
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> destructive
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> dreams, egomania, and imaginary polities that have
> ravaged
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> our common sense
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> as animals, our friendliness as neighbors, our ability
> to
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> choose life above
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> what they have too offer. And what do they have to offer
> >>> as
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> their
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> civilization crumbles? Comfortable places to watch the
> >>> world
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> burn, endless
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> entertaining air conditioned shitpiles, debt, fat
> people
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> eating big juicy
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> hamburgers and an all too violent and real global
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> annihilation, James Bond
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> may or may not have lost his dick, but he stil has a
> >>> license
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> to kill.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > Zionism is the same disease as the master race,
> >>> manifest
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> destiny,
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> salafism, pax romana, capitalism, militarism. Its
> origins
> >>> can
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> be read by
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> anyone. Joshua crosses into “ the promised land” to kill
> >>> the
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> sinful
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> Canaanites or make them into slaves to the chosen
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> people.”Blessed is he who
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> dashes thy little ones against a stone”. This fable has
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> become the script
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> for modern day Israel, just as some version of this
> script
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> has written so
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> much human history. It will script global suicide if we
> >>> let
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> it. If we
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> cannot prevent it.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > Zionism was never the remarkable part of Judaism, the
> >>> heart
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> of this
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> holy path is to choose life, to love the great mystery
> of
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> being wih all the
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> heart and all the mind and the very kernel of life we
> have
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> been given, and
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> to treat others as we wish to be treated.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > On Oct 13, 2021, at 4:14 PM, matthew cissell <
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> mccissell at gmail.com
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> <mailto:mccissell at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > Mach,
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > So let me see. You seem to propose the annihilation
> of
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Israel, a
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> country
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > created whole cloth from ideas, dreams, stories and
> >>> more
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> by carving
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> out a
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > space for that community that had formed a nation
> but
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> lacked a state.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > Ok. Two things (that I'll say) occur to me: What do
> >>> you
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> propose for
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> the
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > people? Do you have some... solution for them as
> well?
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Would it be
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> the same
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > for Arabic and Jewish citizens? What would it
> entail?
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > Next: If you (and others that share your view) are
> the
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> descendent of
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > Europeans living in the Americas (or some other
> >>> previously
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > colonized place), I suppose you are also ready to
> >>> 'undo'
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> your county
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> and
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > hand over your land to the indigenous communities.
> Or
> >>> are
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> you writing
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> from
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > somewhere else, in which case we might talk about
> that
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> place.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > Criticizing the trespasses of any country or
> >>> government
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> is one thing,
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> but
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > calling for its abolition is something else. The
> >>> actions
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> of the
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> Israeli
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > government have often been reprehensible or even
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> criminal, but that
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> does
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > not justify your language, which would certainly
> find
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> applause and
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> echoes
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > in a certain rising current in not only US political
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> discourse but
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> more
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > widely.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > I'm responding not because I think your mind is
> >>> likely to
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> be changed
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> but
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > because I want you and others to know that in this
> >>> open
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> forum you
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> will find
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > voices that do not apathetically ignore your
> >>> statements.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > Ne Obliviscaris
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > Matthew Cissell
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 4:33 PM Mach Thomberi <
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> machthomberi at gmail.com
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> <mailto:machthomberi at gmail.com>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > wrote:
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> No we wouldn't want that would we. Deprive Israel
> >>> water
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> and
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> medicine.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> What would be marvelous. Would be removing Israel
> >>> from
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> the map.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> Cut it
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> out and dispense it into the ether.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> Then do likewise of our collective memory of
> Israel.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> On Oct 13, 2021 9:23 AM, "Joseph Tracy" <
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> brook7 at sover.net <mailto:
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> brook7 at sover.net>> wrote:
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>> I would not go so far as to cut Israelis off from
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> medicine or clean
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> water
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>> as they have done to Gaza, but a cultural boycott
> is
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> potentially a
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> way to
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>> bring the debate into a more public sphere. We
> need
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> equally to
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> confront
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>> what so many in the western press and politics
> have
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> done on this
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> issue.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>> They have supported the insane idea that anyone
> >>> who
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> publicly
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> criticizes
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>> Israel’s abuse of Palestinians is doing so out of
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> anti-semitism.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> They
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> are
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>> labeled anti-semitic even if they are Jews whose
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> parents and
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> relatives
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>> survived or died in Nazi concentration camps.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>> Sally Rooney said she would be honored to have
> her
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> book translated
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> to
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>> Hebrew but will not work with a publisher who does
> >>> not
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> distance
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> themselves
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>> from Israel’s aparteid treatment of Palestinians.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>> On Oct 11, 2021, at 3:44 PM, David Morris <
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> fqmorris at gmail.com
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> <mailto:fqmorris at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>> Why no comment? This is a place for opinion. As
> >>> for
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> me, I say
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> Bravo! I
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>> think Israel deserves full apartheid treatment
> >>> right
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> now. And too
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> many
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>> people are afraid to say so. There! I said it.
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>> David Morris
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>> On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 3:25 PM Mark Kohut <
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> mark.kohut at gmail.com
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> <mailto:mark.kohut at gmail.com>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> wrote:
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://forward.com/opinion/476513/why-wont-sally-rooney-
> <
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>
> https://forward.com/opinion/476513/why-wont-sally-rooney-
> >>> >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>
> allow-her-latest-novel-to-be-translated-into-hebrew/
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>> --
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>> Pynchon-L:
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>> --
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>> Pynchon-L:
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>> --
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>> Pynchon-L:
> >>> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> <
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> --
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> Pynchon-L:
> >>> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> <
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > --
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > Pynchon-L:
> >>> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > --
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > Pynchon-L:
> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >>> <
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> --
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>> --
> >>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >>>
> >>
> --
> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>
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