No comment although I have them.

Fri Oct 15 00:21:40 UTC 2021

Now enough dick stroking.  Who wants to talk Israel?  No one but old people.

Or maybe rather than that cesspool of grit and vagabondage (Israel), speak
of something that has light in it.

Something that is not, Israel.  Not darkness.

An illumination of light, that is making light, make light.

We are here.

On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 7:08 PM Mach Thomberi <machthomberi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> That is awesome.  Thank you David.
>
> You too are the god of this list.
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 6:28 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the playlist.  I’ve been totally removed from almost all new
>> music these last few years. So an injection like this is good.
>>
>> But now, after listening to the first two songs, I catch your gist.
>> About six years ago I had a very bad break up after 30 years married.  She
>> was harsh beyond words, and tried to literally destroy my life.  I only
>> made it through with the help of my closest family and a few friends.  This
>> was the song I most remember from that time:
>>
>> https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCFC9LamNMmLioW643VZ40OA
>>
>> Gotye - Somebody That I Used To Know (feat. Kimbra) [Official Music Video]
>>
>> David Morris
>>
>> Good Luck
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 6:52 PM Mach Thomberi <machthomberi at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> https://youtu.be/9TQKyDD9Yig
>>
>>
>> <https://youtu.be/9TQKyDD9Yig>
>>
>> Mabel:  Smart and snappy pop.  Words right to the point.  I like it.
>>
>> https://youtu.be/cw_L8HdoYgo
>>>
>>> https://youtu.be/OCyL6pa_L4M
>>>
>>> https://youtu.be/YpJAmlnBxoA
>>>
>>> https://youtu.be/PmAglGdibYs
>>>
>>> https://youtu.be/VkKxmnrRVHo
>>>
>>> https://youtu.be/4XaKR_svmMM
>>>
>>> https://youtu.be/CevxZvSJLk8
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:48 PM Mach Thomberi <machthomberi at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > https://youtu.be/8N2k-gv6xNE
>>> >
>>> > https://youtu.be/mqFLXayD6e8
>>> >
>>> > https://youtu.be/dgjTO5eAbZY
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:46 PM Mach Thomberi <machthomberi at gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> https://youtu.be/kHue-HaXXzg
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:45 PM Mach Thomberi <machthomberi at gmail.com
>>> >
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> I don't get these songs.  I have not even listened to them.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> How they relate to Pynchon, well I might know if she didn't have all
>>> my
>>> >>> books.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:38 PM Mach Thomberi <
>>> machthomberi at gmail.com>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> I told my ex, because I couldn't stand the incessant texts--oh here
>>> is
>>> >>>> another one--that are mind and soul numbing iterations of sheer
>>> >>>> obtuse rage, to try contacting me irather in songs.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Which she has proceeded in doing...
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:13 PM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>> >>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> Nah, I think I'm more the kidney, too occasionally the spleen.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Go in peace.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Mach Thomberi <
>>> machthomberi at gmail.com>
>>> >>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Mark, come on, you are the god of plist.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> It would not exist without you.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> You are a Titan.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> You make light in a world of darkness.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 4:14 PM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>> >>>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Take care.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> I do not think I am what you say about the plist. He is buried in
>>> >>>>>>> Milwaukee, with a seat in his name at his favorite movie theater.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> I just 1) usually respond.    2) like to send some stuff I find
>>> that
>>> >>>>>>> might interest and might lead to discussion.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> I am away from it for days and weeks at a time. Monroe never was.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> I'm sorry for your turmoil and loss.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Mark
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:10 PM Mach Thomberi <
>>> >>>>>>> machthomberi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> We all know that you are the heart and soul of plist, Mark.
>>> >>>>>>>> Without you it would be the nonplist.
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> As I sat down to write this, your email came in.  As I am
>>> writing
>>> >>>>>>>> it, there is one from Morrrs.  Which I'll receive after this.
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> The most amazing thing happened.  I left my woman a few days
>>> ago..
>>> >>>>>>>> And in doing so, I told her that I can no longer bare her rage.
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> Fair enough.  I was being the cool guy in leaving..  Then I got
>>> >>>>>>>> this email, from you idiots.  Saying something about Israel.
>>> And it is
>>> >>>>>>>> obvious, that, something, like rage, fell forth.  I was telling
>>> her about
>>> >>>>>>>> her rage, when then something, emanated.  Perhaps there is
>>> something within
>>> >>>>>>>> me.  Maybe we suppress it.
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> The timing of it was exquisite.
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> And everything I say is true.
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 3:48 PM Mark Kohut <
>>> mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> Because it isn't TOTAL. 😇
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> Let me FUCKING SIMPLIFY FOR YOU:
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> BIDEN ADMIN CLIMATE PROPOSALS FULFILL THE UN GOALS.
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> I will add that the admin has a TOTAL, speaking of totalizing,
>>> ALL
>>> >>>>>>>>> OF GOVERNMENT mandate re attacking climate change.
>>> >>>>>>>>> Worked into diplomacy, all other bills (if they can be),
>>> executive
>>> >>>>>>>>> orders, as has happened.
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 3:52 PM Mach Thomberi <
>>> >>>>>>>>> machthomberi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> One might what.  I didn't quite get the jizz of that mindless
>>> >>>>>>>>>> schpieel.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> Why can't we change it from the plist to the
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> TOTAL FUCKING KOHUT LIST.
>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Oct 14, 2021 12:02 PM, "Mark Kohut" <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Also, the US commitments to effect climate change, have been
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> called by an
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> outside organization, policies that match
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> the recommendations as necessary, that if all countries were
>>> to
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> commit to
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> and do would meet the goal
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> of staying under 2 degrees Celsius per the recent MAJOR,
>>> scary,
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> UN
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Report.....
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> That is, these policies meet the UN Report's recommendations
>>> to
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> achieve the
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> stated goal. One might think the admin
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> talked to the UN as that report was being written---the
>>> science
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> compiled
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> over years, as we know--and met the guidelines. One
>>> might.....
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 11:17 AM Joseph Tracy <
>>> brook7 at sover.net>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >  I don't have that clear a take on some imagined world
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> majority  and I
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> > wish I could sincerely agree but at this point I stand with
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Greta,  what we
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> > hear from so called leaders is blah blah, blah, and what we
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> see is growing
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> > arms sales , continued growth in C02 emissions, threats
>>> and
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> violent
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> > blockades by the US,  mass survellance, publishers being
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> tortured for
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> > publishing the same thing as the NY Times,  pipelines and a
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> revived nuclear
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> > arms program.  I could go on but what is the point.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >    It’s true that there are many, many people who want
>>> change
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> and they
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> > gladden my heart as they do yours. They are not yet
>>> organized
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> as an
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> > effective agent of change though most do what they can. In
>>> the
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> lead up to
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> > the second Iraq war the world saw the biggest anti-war
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> demonstration in
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> > human history and the biggest global demonstration ever,
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> rivaled only by
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> > climate crisis activism. It did not stop the war and was
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> barely covered in
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> > the US press.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> > On Oct 14, 2021, at 10:00 AM, Mark Kohut <
>>> mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> > I will assert as baldly as your assertions that the
>>> majority
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> of the people
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> > in the Pokey Little Puppy's Whole
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> > Wide World are acting and imagining outside of this blanket
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> condemnation:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >  "imagine solutions than are not reliant on war, poisons
>>> and
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ecological
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> > rape."
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> > Many businesses, many countries, with whatever else they
>>> are
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> also doing,
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> > are acting FINALLY against this 'reliance".
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> > On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 9:51 AM Joseph Tracy <
>>> brook7 at sover.net>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> The historic creation of Israel is a subject that has
>>> already
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> led to many
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> many books and articles.  I have read quite a few of those
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> books. What I
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> said is what I said, and I wasn’t trying to ccomplish
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> whatever you or
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> mathew c think I should have been. But without a doubt the
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> so-called
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> creation of Israel has involved decades of assult on the
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Palestinians who
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> lived there before the Jewish settlers came. It was as
>>> much
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> an act of
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> destruction and theft in my view as an act of creation. In
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> the same way the
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> “creation” of the US required a destructive assault on
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> indiginous people.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> Israel seems to me to follow the biblical paradigm of
>>> Zionism
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> layed out in
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> the legends of Joshua and later David. I think that is
>>> clear
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> enough and
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> quite defensible as a proposition.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>  As far as I can tell most countries are acts of
>>> imagination
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> and
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> violence based on tilling and armies, they are a product
>>> of
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> the paradigm of
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> war . National borders and rules are usually a lot more
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> arbitrary than
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> natural human self organizing and require leaders imposing
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> taxes  through
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> violence. Since the advent of mass production and fossil
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> fuels we have a
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> new paradigm that combines the economic predations of
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> investment capitalism
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> with the military power or imperial alliances. This is
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> quickly destroying
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> the biospheric stability of the planet.  Our imaginations
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> could be put to
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> better use. We are not bound to follow our path of self
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> destruction by
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> anything other than unwillingness to face the problems
>>> and
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> imagine
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> solutions than are not reliant on war, poisons and
>>> ecological
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> rape.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > On Oct 14, 2021, at 7:49 AM, Mark Kohut <
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > Joseph,
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > Without distinctions, your generalities about all
>>> countries
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> everywhere
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> and when are always correct.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > Yet say nothing substantive about the creation of
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Israel--or any other
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> country for that matter.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > And do little (or nothing) for discussion of all your
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Historic evils
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> but show us a nice, beautifully-expressed personal
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> credo--open to all: "the
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> heart of this holy path is to choose life, to love the
>>> great
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> mystery of
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> being wih all the heart and all the mind and the very
>>> kernel
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> of life we
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> have been given, and to treat others as we wish to be
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> treated.”
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> Guess what. That is not a personal credo, Those are ideas
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> from Judaism(
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> The Torah and Maimonedes) which I appreciate and try to
>>> honor
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> in my life.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > Mark
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 12:21 AM Joseph Tracy <
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> brook7 at sover.net
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> <mailto:brook7 at sover.net>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > Annihilation is a loaded word. It sounds cruel and
>>> violent.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Truthfully
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> though, a name or concept or form of government can be
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> eliminated or
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> replaced without destroying human lives or poisoning the
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> earth. Nations and
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> religions have changed and died before with little or even
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> benign
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> consequences. And those nations  that survived and rose to
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> become “great
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> powers" have a pretty shitty track record to justify
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> themselves. Imagine
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> all the people living life in peace.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > I don’t know exactly what Thomberi ( sounds a made up
>>> name)
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> is
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> intending, whether tongue in cheek or weirdly sincere,
>>> but I
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> think matthew
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> c is wildly sentimentalizing how Israel came into being.
>>> As
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> to what is to
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> be done. It is a question for all of us, not just Israel.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Settler
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> colonialism and its cruelties are embedded in most of the
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> world. Western
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> civilization as configured has desertified vast parts of
>>> the
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> globe, moved
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> sane indiginous cultures into bantustans and is rapidly
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> destroying the
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> diverse species upon which life as we know it exists,
>>> rapidly
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> moving us
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> toward waves of mass destruction . As for me, yes i
>>> really am
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ready to hand
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> over my land and the very concept of property to the
>>> tribal
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> peoples of
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> north america. Would they want this mess, our mini-flags,
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> banks and
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> fracking machines? I don’t know, but I could not be more
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> serious about my
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> acre of workspace , fruit trees, asparagus, maple trees,
>>> and
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> stone walls.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> My whole life is about the effort to move myself and
>>> others
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> toward an
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> ecologically sustainable life, and the biggest impediment
>>> to
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> change is the
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> settler colonialist warfare that continues from the
>>> ancient
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> to the modern
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> world, that turns from warlordism to nationalism  to
>>> imperial
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> warfare. What
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> Israel and the US and China and Russia and Brazil and
>>> Canada
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> and so many
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> rapacious military dictatorships are expressing in this
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> shared planet  is
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> varying forms of  sociopathic madness organized by  self
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> destructive
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> dreams, egomania, and imaginary polities that have ravaged
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> our common sense
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> as animals, our friendliness as neighbors, our ability to
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> choose life above
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> what they have too offer. And what do they have to offer
>>> as
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> their
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> civilization crumbles? Comfortable places to watch the
>>> world
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> burn, endless
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> entertaining air conditioned shitpiles, debt,  fat people
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> eating big juicy
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> hamburgers and an all too violent and real global
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> annihilation, James Bond
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> may or may not have lost his dick, but he stil has a
>>> license
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> to kill.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >  Zionism is the same disease as the master race,
>>> manifest
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> destiny,
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> salafism, pax romana, capitalism, militarism. Its origins
>>> can
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> be read by
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> anyone. Joshua crosses into “ the promised land” to kill
>>> the
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> sinful
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> Canaanites or make them into slaves to the chosen
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> people.”Blessed is he who
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> dashes thy little ones against a stone”. This fable has
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> become the script
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> for modern day Israel, just as some version of this script
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> has written so
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> much human history. It will script global suicide if we
>>> let
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> it. If we
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> cannot prevent it.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > Zionism was never the remarkable part of Judaism, the
>>> heart
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> of this
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> holy path is to choose life, to love the great mystery of
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> being wih all the
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> heart and all the mind and the very kernel of life we have
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> been given, and
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> to treat others as we wish to be treated.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > On Oct 13, 2021, at 4:14 PM, matthew cissell <
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> mccissell at gmail.com
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> <mailto:mccissell at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > Mach,
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > So let me see. You seem to propose the annihilation of
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Israel, a
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> country
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > created whole cloth from ideas, dreams, stories and
>>> more
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> by carving
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> out a
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > space for that community that had formed a nation but
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> lacked a state.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > Ok. Two things (that I'll say) occur to me: What do
>>> you
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> propose for
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> the
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > people? Do you have some... solution for them as well?
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Would it be
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> the same
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > for Arabic and Jewish citizens? What would it entail?
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > Next: If you (and others that share your view) are the
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> descendent of
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > Europeans living in the Americas (or some other
>>> previously
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > colonized place), I suppose you are also ready to
>>> 'undo'
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> your county
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> and
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > hand over your land to the indigenous communities. Or
>>> are
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> you writing
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> from
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > somewhere else, in which case we might talk about that
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> place.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > Criticizing the trespasses of any country or
>>> government
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> is one thing,
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> but
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > calling for its abolition is something else. The
>>> actions
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> Israeli
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > government have often been reprehensible or even
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> criminal, but that
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> does
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > not justify your language, which would certainly find
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> applause and
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> echoes
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > in a certain rising current in not only US political
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> discourse but
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> more
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > widely.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > I'm responding not because I think your mind is
>>> likely to
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> be changed
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> but
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > because I want you and others to know that in this
>>> open
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> forum you
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> will find
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > voices that do not apathetically ignore your
>>> statements.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > Ne Obliviscaris
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > Matthew Cissell
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 4:33 PM Mach Thomberi <
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> machthomberi at gmail.com
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> <mailto:machthomberi at gmail.com>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> No we wouldn't want that would we.  Deprive Israel
>>> water
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> and
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> medicine.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> What would be marvelous.  Would be removing Israel
>>> from
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> the map.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> Cut it
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> out and dispense it into the ether.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> Then do likewise of our collective memory of Israel.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> On Oct 13, 2021 9:23 AM, "Joseph Tracy" <
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> brook7 at sover.net <mailto:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> brook7 at sover.net>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>> I would not go so far as to cut Israelis off from
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> medicine or clean
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> water
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>> as they have done to Gaza, but a cultural boycott is
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> potentially a
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> way to
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>> bring the debate into a more public sphere. We need
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> equally to
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> confront
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>> what so many in the western press and politics  have
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> done on this
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> issue.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>> They  have supported  the insane idea that anyone
>>> who
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> publicly
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> criticizes
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>> Israel’s abuse of Palestinians is doing so out of
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> anti-semitism.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> They
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> are
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>> labeled  anti-semitic even if they are Jews whose
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> parents and
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> relatives
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>> survived or died  in Nazi concentration camps.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>  Sally Rooney said she would be honored to have her
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> book translated
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> to
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>> Hebrew but will not work with a publisher who does
>>> not
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> distance
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> themselves
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>> from Israel’s aparteid treatment of Palestinians.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>> On Oct 11, 2021, at 3:44 PM, David Morris <
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> fqmorris at gmail.com
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> <mailto:fqmorris at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>> Why no comment?  This is a place for opinion.  As
>>> for
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> me, I say
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> Bravo!  I
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>> think Israel deserves full apartheid treatment
>>> right
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> now.  And too
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> many
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>> people are afraid to say so.   There!  I said it.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>> David Morris
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>> On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 3:25 PM Mark Kohut <
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> mark.kohut at gmail.com
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> <mailto:mark.kohut at gmail.com>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://forward.com/opinion/476513/why-wont-sally-rooney- <
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> https://forward.com/opinion/476513/why-wont-sally-rooney-
>>> >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>> allow-her-latest-novel-to-be-translated-into-hebrew/
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>> --
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>> Pynchon-L:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>> --
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>> Pynchon-L:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>> --
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>> Pynchon-L:
>>> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> <
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> --
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> Pynchon-L:
>>> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> <
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > --
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > Pynchon-L:
>>> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > --
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>> <
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> --
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> --
>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>
>>