No comment although I have them.

Mike Weaver mike.weaver at zen.co.uk
Fri Oct 15 11:45:21 UTC 2021 

Hi foax,

I only checked my personal account to pay my electricity bilI and what 
do I find...

I was mysteriously unsubbed from the list in January 2020 and over the 
months have made several attempts to return. No links worked for me. A 
few days ago Olivia gave me a link that worked and I return to find what 
- I/P anguish and now the electric universe, tragedy to farce in one 
swift move.

So whats' been happening - does the master get any attention or is it 
just the creatures at play and war. My determined effort to get back on 
was driven by my current re-read of Bleeding Edge, which I'm enjoying a 
lot more second time round. Not caring if I can't remember who's who, 
just tagging along with Maxine as she follows the trail.

Better get back to work now - catch you all later.
Mike


On 15/10/2021 10:22, Mach Thomberi wrote:
> Why what.
>
> Surely we have moved from an atomistic evolutionary cosmos.  You do not
> believe that.
>
> The things that you do, the everyday things.  These are borne by, light.
>
> What guides your heart, your lungs, your kidneys.  You can call it whatever
> you want.  Light.
>
> There is an electric universe, that exists as pulsations of varying
> intensities.  Beyond that, consciousness.
>
> Get used to it.  The electric universe is here.
>
> Or you may call it the Crystalline Realm.  It doesn't matter what you call
> it.  Vibration.  Frequency.
>
> Light.
>
> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 9:13 PM Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Why? What is born of light?
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:22 PM Mach Thomberi <machthomberi at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Now enough dick stroking.  Who wants to talk Israel?  No one but old
>>> people.
>>>
>>> Or maybe rather than that cesspool of grit and vagabondage (Israel), speak
>>> of something that has light in it.
>>>
>>> Something that is not, Israel.  Not darkness.
>>>
>>> An illumination of light, that is making light, make light.
>>>
>>> We are here.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 7:08 PM Mach Thomberi <machthomberi at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That is awesome.  Thank you David.
>>>>
>>>> You too are the god of this list.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 6:28 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>> Thanks for the playlist.  I’ve been totally removed from almost all new
>>>>> music these last few years. So an injection like this is good.
>>>>>
>>>>> But now, after listening to the first two songs, I catch your gist.
>>>>> About six years ago I had a very bad break up after 30 years married.
>>> She
>>>>> was harsh beyond words, and tried to literally destroy my life.  I only
>>>>> made it through with the help of my closest family and a few friends.
>>> This
>>>>> was the song I most remember from that time:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCFC9LamNMmLioW643VZ40OA
>>>>>
>>>>> Gotye - Somebody That I Used To Know (feat. Kimbra) [Official Music
>>> Video]
>>>>> David Morris
>>>>>
>>>>> Good Luck
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 6:52 PM Mach Thomberi <machthomberi at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> https://youtu.be/9TQKyDD9Yig
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://youtu.be/9TQKyDD9Yig>
>>>>>
>>>>> Mabel:  Smart and snappy pop.  Words right to the point.  I like it.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://youtu.be/cw_L8HdoYgo
>>>>>> https://youtu.be/OCyL6pa_L4M
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://youtu.be/YpJAmlnBxoA
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://youtu.be/PmAglGdibYs
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://youtu.be/VkKxmnrRVHo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://youtu.be/4XaKR_svmMM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://youtu.be/CevxZvSJLk8
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:48 PM Mach Thomberi <machthomberi at gmail.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/8N2k-gv6xNE
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/mqFLXayD6e8
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/dgjTO5eAbZY
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:46 PM Mach Thomberi <
>>> machthomberi at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/kHue-HaXXzg
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:45 PM Mach Thomberi <
>>> machthomberi at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't get these songs.  I have not even listened to them.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How they relate to Pynchon, well I might know if she didn't have
>>> all
>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>> books.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:38 PM Mach Thomberi <
>>>>>> machthomberi at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I told my ex, because I couldn't stand the incessant texts--oh
>>> here
>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> another one--that are mind and soul numbing iterations of sheer
>>>>>>>>>> obtuse rage, to try contacting me irather in songs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Which she has proceeded in doing...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:13 PM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nah, I think I'm more the kidney, too occasionally the spleen.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Go in peace.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Mach Thomberi <
>>>>>> machthomberi at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark, come on, you are the god of plist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It would not exist without you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You are a Titan.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You make light in a world of darkness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 4:14 PM Mark Kohut <
>>> mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Take care.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not think I am what you say about the plist. He is
>>> buried in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Milwaukee, with a seat in his name at his favorite movie
>>> theater.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just 1) usually respond.    2) like to send some stuff I
>>> find
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> might interest and might lead to discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am away from it for days and weeks at a time. Monroe never
>>> was.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sorry for your turmoil and loss.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:10 PM Mach Thomberi <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> machthomberi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We all know that you are the heart and soul of plist, Mark.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without you it would be the nonplist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I sat down to write this, your email came in.  As I am
>>>>>> writing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, there is one from Morrrs.  Which I'll receive after this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The most amazing thing happened.  I left my woman a few days
>>>>>> ago..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And in doing so, I told her that I can no longer bare her
>>> rage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fair enough.  I was being the cool guy in leaving..  Then I
>>> got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this email, from you idiots.  Saying something about Israel.
>>>>>> And it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obvious, that, something, like rage, fell forth.  I was
>>> telling
>>>>>> her about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> her rage, when then something, emanated.  Perhaps there is
>>>>>> something within
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me.  Maybe we suppress it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The timing of it was exquisite.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And everything I say is true.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 3:48 PM Mark Kohut <
>>>>>> mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because it isn't TOTAL. 😇
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me FUCKING SIMPLIFY FOR YOU:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BIDEN ADMIN CLIMATE PROPOSALS FULFILL THE UN GOALS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will add that the admin has a TOTAL, speaking of
>>> totalizing,
>>>>>> ALL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OF GOVERNMENT mandate re attacking climate change.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Worked into diplomacy, all other bills (if they can be),
>>>>>> executive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> orders, as has happened.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 3:52 PM Mach Thomberi <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machthomberi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One might what.  I didn't quite get the jizz of that
>>> mindless
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schpieel.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why can't we change it from the plist to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TOTAL FUCKING KOHUT LIST.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 14, 2021 12:02 PM, "Mark Kohut" <
>>> mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, the US commitments to effect climate change, have
>>> been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called by an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outside organization, policies that match
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the recommendations as necessary, that if all countries
>>> were
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> commit to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and do would meet the goal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of staying under 2 degrees Celsius per the recent MAJOR,
>>>>>> scary,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UN
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Report.....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is, these policies meet the UN Report's
>>> recommendations
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> achieve the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stated goal. One might think the admin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talked to the UN as that report was being written---the
>>>>>> science
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> compiled
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over years, as we know--and met the guidelines. One
>>>>>> might.....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 11:17 AM Joseph Tracy <
>>>>>> brook7 at sover.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   I don't have that clear a take on some imagined world
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> majority  and I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wish I could sincerely agree but at this point I stand
>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Greta,  what we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hear from so called leaders is blah blah, blah, and
>>> what we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see is growing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arms sales , continued growth in C02 emissions, threats
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> violent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blockades by the US,  mass survellance, publishers being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tortured for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> publishing the same thing as the NY Times,  pipelines
>>> and a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revived nuclear
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arms program.  I could go on but what is the point.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     It’s true that there are many, many people who want
>>>>>> change
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gladden my heart as they do yours. They are not yet
>>>>>> organized
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effective agent of change though most do what they can.
>>> In
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lead up to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the second Iraq war the world saw the biggest anti-war
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> demonstration in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> human history and the biggest global demonstration ever,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rivaled only by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> climate crisis activism. It did not stop the war and was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> barely covered in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the US press.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 14, 2021, at 10:00 AM, Mark Kohut <
>>>>>> mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will assert as baldly as your assertions that the
>>>>>> majority
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the Pokey Little Puppy's Whole
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wide World are acting and imagining outside of this
>>> blanket
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> condemnation:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   "imagine solutions than are not reliant on war, poisons
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ecological
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rape."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many businesses, many countries, with whatever else they
>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also doing,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are acting FINALLY against this 'reliance".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 9:51 AM Joseph Tracy <
>>>>>> brook7 at sover.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The historic creation of Israel is a subject that has
>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> led to many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many books and articles.  I have read quite a few of
>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> books. What I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said is what I said, and I wasn’t trying to ccomplish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever you or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mathew c think I should have been. But without a doubt
>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so-called
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> creation of Israel has involved decades of assult on
>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Palestinians who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lived there before the Jewish settlers came. It was as
>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an act of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destruction and theft in my view as an act of
>>> creation. In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same way the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “creation” of the US required a destructive assault on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indiginous people.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Israel seems to me to follow the biblical paradigm of
>>>>>> Zionism
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> layed out in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the legends of Joshua and later David. I think that is
>>>>>> clear
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite defensible as a proposition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   As far as I can tell most countries are acts of
>>>>>> imagination
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> violence based on tilling and armies, they are a
>>> product
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the paradigm of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> war . National borders and rules are usually a lot more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arbitrary than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> natural human self organizing and require leaders
>>> imposing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taxes  through
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> violence. Since the advent of mass production and
>>> fossil
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fuels we have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new paradigm that combines the economic predations of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> investment capitalism
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the military power or imperial alliances. This is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quickly destroying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the biospheric stability of the planet.  Our
>>> imaginations
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be put to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better use. We are not bound to follow our path of self
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destruction by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything other than unwillingness to face the problems
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> imagine
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solutions than are not reliant on war, poisons and
>>>>>> ecological
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rape.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 14, 2021, at 7:49 AM, Mark Kohut <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joseph,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without distinctions, your generalities about all
>>>>>> countries
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everywhere
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and when are always correct.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yet say nothing substantive about the creation of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Israel--or any other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> country for that matter.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And do little (or nothing) for discussion of all your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Historic evils
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but show us a nice, beautifully-expressed personal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> credo--open to all: "the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart of this holy path is to choose life, to love the
>>>>>> great
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mystery of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being wih all the heart and all the mind and the very
>>>>>> kernel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of life we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have been given, and to treat others as we wish to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treated.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Guess what. That is not a personal credo, Those are
>>> ideas
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Judaism(
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Torah and Maimonedes) which I appreciate and try to
>>>>>> honor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in my life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 12:21 AM Joseph Tracy <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brook7 at sover.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:brook7 at sover.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Annihilation is a loaded word. It sounds cruel and
>>>>>> violent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Truthfully
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though, a name or concept or form of government can be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eliminated or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> replaced without destroying human lives or poisoning
>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> earth. Nations and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> religions have changed and died before with little or
>>> even
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> benign
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consequences. And those nations  that survived and
>>> rose to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become “great
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> powers" have a pretty shitty track record to justify
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themselves. Imagine
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the people living life in peace.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don’t know exactly what Thomberi ( sounds a made up
>>>>>> name)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intending, whether tongue in cheek or weirdly sincere,
>>>>>> but I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think matthew
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> c is wildly sentimentalizing how Israel came into
>>> being.
>>>>>> As
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to what is to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be done. It is a question for all of us, not just
>>> Israel.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Settler
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> colonialism and its cruelties are embedded in most of
>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world. Western
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> civilization as configured has desertified vast parts
>>> of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> globe, moved
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sane indiginous cultures into bantustans and is rapidly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroying the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> diverse species upon which life as we know it exists,
>>>>>> rapidly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moving us
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> toward waves of mass destruction . As for me, yes i
>>>>>> really am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ready to hand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over my land and the very concept of property to the
>>>>>> tribal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peoples of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> north america. Would they want this mess, our
>>> mini-flags,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> banks and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fracking machines? I don’t know, but I could not be
>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serious about my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> acre of workspace , fruit trees, asparagus, maple
>>> trees,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stone walls.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My whole life is about the effort to move myself and
>>>>>> others
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> toward an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ecologically sustainable life, and the biggest
>>> impediment
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change is the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> settler colonialist warfare that continues from the
>>>>>> ancient
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the modern
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world, that turns from warlordism to nationalism  to
>>>>>> imperial
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> warfare. What
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Israel and the US and China and Russia and Brazil and
>>>>>> Canada
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and so many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rapacious military dictatorships are expressing in this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shared planet  is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> varying forms of  sociopathic madness organized by
>>> self
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destructive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dreams, egomania, and imaginary polities that have
>>> ravaged
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our common sense
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as animals, our friendliness as neighbors, our ability
>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choose life above
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what they have too offer. And what do they have to
>>> offer
>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> civilization crumbles? Comfortable places to watch the
>>>>>> world
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> burn, endless
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entertaining air conditioned shitpiles, debt,  fat
>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eating big juicy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hamburgers and an all too violent and real global
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> annihilation, James Bond
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> may or may not have lost his dick, but he stil has a
>>>>>> license
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to kill.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Zionism is the same disease as the master race,
>>>>>> manifest
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> destiny,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> salafism, pax romana, capitalism, militarism. Its
>>> origins
>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be read by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone. Joshua crosses into “ the promised land” to
>>> kill
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sinful
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canaanites or make them into slaves to the chosen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people.”Blessed is he who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dashes thy little ones against a stone”. This fable has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become the script
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for modern day Israel, just as some version of this
>>> script
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has written so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much human history. It will script global suicide if we
>>>>>> let
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. If we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot prevent it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Zionism was never the remarkable part of Judaism, the
>>>>>> heart
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> holy path is to choose life, to love the great mystery
>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being wih all the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart and all the mind and the very kernel of life we
>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been given, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to treat others as we wish to be treated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2021, at 4:14 PM, matthew cissell <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mccissell at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:mccissell at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mach,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So let me see. You seem to propose the
>>> annihilation of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Israel, a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> country
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created whole cloth from ideas, dreams, stories and
>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by carving
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> space for that community that had formed a nation
>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lacked a state.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok. Two things (that I'll say) occur to me: What do
>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> propose for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people? Do you have some... solution for them as
>>> well?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would it be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for Arabic and Jewish citizens? What would it
>>> entail?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Next: If you (and others that share your view) are
>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> descendent of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Europeans living in the Americas (or some other
>>>>>> previously
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> colonized place), I suppose you are also ready to
>>>>>> 'undo'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your county
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hand over your land to the indigenous communities.
>>> Or
>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you writing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhere else, in which case we might talk about
>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> place.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Criticizing the trespasses of any country or
>>>>>> government
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is one thing,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calling for its abolition is something else. The
>>>>>> actions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Israeli
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> government have often been reprehensible or even
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal, but that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not justify your language, which would certainly
>>> find
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> applause and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> echoes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in a certain rising current in not only US
>>> political
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discourse but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> widely.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm responding not because I think your mind is
>>>>>> likely to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be changed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because I want you and others to know that in this
>>>>>> open
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forum you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will find
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> voices that do not apathetically ignore your
>>>>>> statements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ne Obliviscaris
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Matthew Cissell
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 4:33 PM Mach Thomberi <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machthomberi at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:machthomberi at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No we wouldn't want that would we.  Deprive Israel
>>>>>> water
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> medicine.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What would be marvelous.  Would be removing Israel
>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the map.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cut it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out and dispense it into the ether.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then do likewise of our collective memory of
>>> Israel.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2021 9:23 AM, "Joseph Tracy" <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brook7 at sover.net <mailto:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brook7 at sover.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would not go so far as to cut Israelis off from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> medicine or clean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> water
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as they have done to Gaza, but a cultural
>>> boycott is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> potentially a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bring the debate into a more public sphere. We
>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equally to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confront
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what so many in the western press and politics
>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> done on this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They  have supported  the insane idea that anyone
>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> publicly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criticizes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Israel’s abuse of Palestinians is doing so out of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anti-semitism.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> labeled  anti-semitic even if they are Jews whose
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parents and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relatives
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> survived or died  in Nazi concentration camps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Sally Rooney said she would be honored to have
>>> her
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> book translated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hebrew but will not work with a publisher who
>>> does
>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themselves
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Israel’s aparteid treatment of Palestinians.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 11, 2021, at 3:44 PM, David Morris <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fqmorris at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:fqmorris at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why no comment?  This is a place for opinion.
>>> As
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me, I say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bravo!  I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think Israel deserves full apartheid treatment
>>>>>> right
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now.  And too
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are afraid to say so.   There!  I said
>>> it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David Morris
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 3:25 PM Mark Kohut <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mark.kohut at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:mark.kohut at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://forward.com/opinion/476513/why-wont-sally-rooney-
>>> <
>>> https://forward.com/opinion/476513/why-wont-sally-rooney-
>>> allow-her-latest-novel-to-be-translated-into-hebrew/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pynchon-L:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pynchon-L:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pynchon-L:
>>>>>> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pynchon-L:
>>>>>> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pynchon-L:
>>>>>> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pynchon-L:
>>> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pynchon-L:
>>> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>>>>
>>> --
>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>
> --
> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l

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