Dune and psychedelic desert messiahs

[Joseph Tracy]

Agree that this could be a valid literal interpretation, but how do you seperate visionary from hallucinatory or soul-manifesting( psychedelic)?  Also the book is more empatically trippy as regards the nature of spice and this is still loaded cultural territory for a movie. Part of the problem with Herbert’s story is the isolated “truth” of the messianic vision.  Here is a dark skinned culture whose eyes have turned blue from the use of spice and they seem to rely on scriptures rather than insight. Really?

Would a war killing billions really have a chance of bringing peace to the cosmos? Is this really the best “vision” of how cruelty and violence are ended?  To me the fable is fatally flawed by this hierarchy on many levels and  an understanding why and how it is flawed is its truest value.  

> On Oct 23, 2021, at 4:13 PM, Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com> wrote:d
> 
> Correct. The protagonist's visionary inclination is well established
> considerably before his first contact with the psychoactive qualities of
> the "spice". In fact, I don't recall any reference to hallucinatory
> effects. That is imposed by trip-seeking viewers.
> 
> On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 1:09 PM Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> It does not rely on tripping.
>> 
>> On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 3:51 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Good to hear it’s not a dog.  Early reviews said it was either sublime or
>>> an overwrought-yet empty mess.  Sounds like it relies on tripping?  THAT
>>> could be a mess (usually is in film).
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> DM
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 3:44 PM Bruno <bruno.laze at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Saw it yesterday as well. A shout-out to Villeneuve's fidelity to early
>>>> sci-fi aesthetics.  Reminds me of John Harris and pre-90s book covers.
>>>> Villeneuve shows much skill in making authorial, fringe ergotic sci-fi.
>>>> What not to love when a genre goes artistic?
>>>> 
>>>> Space travel: spice. A hallucinogen. To travel light is to get rid of
>>> brain
>>>> patterns.
>>>> 
>>>> Le sam. 23 oct. 2021 à 12:50, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> a écrit
>> :
>>>> 
>>>>> Went to see Dune last night, mostly Williams College kids attending,
>>>>> needed some escapist nonsense. It was well done I thought, good
>> acting,
>>>>> good music and sound effects if slightly over the top with the big
>>> drums.
>>>>> Visually severe, engaging, ominous in story-appropriateriate ways. I
>>>>> wondered if the whole heroic desert freedom fighters with Islamic
>> style
>>>>> might shake up the imagination of young watchers shaped by
>> anti-Muslim
>>>>> cultural atmosphere. Stayed quite close to the book, more condensed.
>>> Not
>>>>> sure visionary psychedelic messiahs leading desert rebels against the
>>>>> exploitation of a cruel empire has serious relevance, but it could
>> be a
>>>> lot
>>>>> worse. It is only half the first book.
>>>>>  I thought Herbert made a big mistake killing off the ecologist
>> when I
>>>> re
>>>>> read the book most of a year ago. I still think so, too central as a
>>>>> redeeming theme.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have an increasingly hard time with big Iron machines traveling
>> light
>>>>> years through space while people fight with swords.  We are so
>> fucking
>>>> far
>>>>> from real space travel.
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
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>>>>> 
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