Any suggestions to make this a better quick plot summary for VL?

[rich]

Hey David

I didnt make it through the Vorrh--appreciated the uniqueness of the story
but its a slog to get through. and there are two sequels. Similar with Alan
Moore's Jersualem. guess it's rare to have  freshness, digestible yet
complex prose and heft

speaking of, I think Marlon James has just that. I also appreciate his
range. His books are offbeat--History of Seven Murders is about alot of
things but centers around certain criminal gangs in Jamaica. it's hyper
violent, but has a large cast of characters, including Bob Marley who is a
tangential character called the Singer.
His current work is a planned trilogy, called the  Dark Star. The first
book came out in 2019, Black Leopard and Red Wolf. some called Game of
Thrones with African myths, but don't think that's close to the richness of
the fantasy James has created--essentially there is a quest to find a
missing child, focused on the aforementioned characters and others on the
quest who visit these strange places. again, hyper violent but also sexual
(mostly of the homoerotic persuasion)--my bad analogy is Cormac Mccarthy
(there are a trio of horrific huners of some such in the book that remind
me of that trio of murderers and worse in Outer Dark) mixed with Dhalgren.
and, joy of joys, the second book has just been announced Moon Witch and
Spider King (I do love these titles) slated for February. Seeing as its a
trilogy, the first book ends with alot of things unresolved and some
characters not as fleshed out (especially some of the female ones--the new
book features a female witch as one of the main narratives). I'll have to
go back and read the first book again as the level of detail was
considerable and required reading to make any of what goes in the Moon
Witch sensible.
James made the switch from earlier historical novel about a slave revolt on
a sugar plantation (which I still need to read) to a hyper real current
street-level crime story (written in a somewhat imposing Jamaican
slang/dialect) to a blasted high-level fantasy that is weighed down
properly, avoiding so much fantasy that seems so flimsy to me or its a
disguise for politics and good guy-bad guy stuff and what not. James has
created his own world. it's great stuff

rich

On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 10:58 AM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:

> Tell more about Marlon James.
>
> I’ll soon be looking for my next read after I finish The Vorrh by Brian
> Catling.  I’m halfway through Vorrh, and liking, but not loving it.  Once
> in a long while I’ll read sci-fi or fantasy. Vorrh is fantasy with a smidge
> of steam-punk. It’s narration syntax is sometimes what feels like Edwardian
> and sometimes a colonized person’s naïveté or deeper obscurity.  The
> central “character” is the Vorrh, a deepest, darkest forest, and its
> relationship with its humans, of greater or lesser nativity to the forest.
>
> So, what can you tell us about Marlon James?
>
> David Morris
>
> The Vorrh
> https://www.amazon.com/Vorrh-Trilogy-Brian-Catling/dp/1101873787
>
> On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 10:17 AM rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> D--
>>
>> I think Vineland holds up better than IV and BE, if comparing the 'minor'
>> works, though I don't really have any compulsion to ever read these 3
>> again. Vineland resonated with me once, but not anymore.
>>
>> Folks were disappointed I guess to hear back from the man after 17 yrs
>> with Vineland. but we know with M&D and AtD he caught up. and now it's been
>> 15 years since a 'major' work as I see it.
>>
>> But I haven't been enamored of much current fiction anyways, except for
>> Marlon James
>>
>> rich
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 5:11 AM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I really don’t like Vineland.  I tried to give it an honest second shot
>>> many years ago here in a group read, and I concluded that it is my very
>>> least favorite Pynchon novel, for many reasons.
>>>
>>> David Morris
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 10:19 PM Michael Bailey <
>>> michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Just trying to give a sense of Vineland to a hypothetical friend or two
>>> > with intelligence but minimal to no literary knowledge, wanting to hit
>>> the
>>> > high points
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 1) even among Pynchon fans it gets disrespected - I never understand
>>> why
>>> > (-;
>>> >
>>> > 2) it starts out in 1984 with the forces of marijuana Prohibition
>>> closing
>>> > in on pothead Zoyd Wheeler, musician and welfare recipient but also
>>> odd-job
>>> > doer and gypsy roofer…anything to support his daughter and keep
>>> building on
>>> > to his home, which started as a small trailer but now has numerous
>>> > additions
>>> >
>>> > 2a) Zoyd has made a deal with the villainous Brock Vond of the DEA to
>>> let
>>> > him keep his daughter Prairie, but he has to do something crazy every
>>> year
>>> > to keep collecting SSI so they know where he is, otherwise they will
>>> get
>>> > Child Social Services to take away his daughter.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 3) it flashes back and forth between 1968 and 1984
>>> >
>>> > 4) magical realism - a South American literary current, exemplified by
>>> > Gabriel Garcia Marquez among others, which mixes a bit of fantasy into
>>> an
>>> > otherwise straightforward story
>>> >
>>> > Vineland has some magical realist elements:
>>> >
>>> >  - the Puncutron Machine, which automates acupuncture and is used in
>>> Ninja
>>> > nunnery, The Sisterhood of Kunoichi Attentives, to cure the character
>>> > Takeshi of a kung fu deathblow inflicted upon him in error by DL, a
>>> lady
>>> > Ninja. Her penance is to be his bodyguard for a year and a day. They
>>> > eventually fall in love.
>>> >
>>> > - business cards that detect the presence of other business cards from
>>> the
>>> > same character (Takeshi) and play a little tune to alert the bearers
>>> >
>>> > - Takeshi’s business is Karmic Adjustment & he works with “Thanatoids”
>>> who
>>> > are probably ghosts, to reconcile them to the ills they suffered in
>>> life
>>> >
>>> > - a UFO tries to take over a jet flying to Hawaii, but the main
>>> character,
>>> > Zoyd, drives them off by playing a B flat on his keyboard. Among the
>>> > passengers is Takeshi, who gratefully gives Zoyd one of his musical
>>> > business cards
>>> >
>>> > - at one point, there’s a TransAm with a mirror finish, so it’s
>>> effectively
>>> > invisible
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 5) Star-crossed lovers - Zoyd, a musician, marries radical photographer
>>> > Frenesi back in the 60s, but Frenesi is seduced violently by
>>> villainous DEA
>>> > agent Brock Vond and persuaded to betray her friends.
>>> > Even after she does his bidding, Vond jails Frenesi, abusing the power
>>> of
>>> > the State, as is his won’t, in order to detain her and sedate her with
>>> > psych meds.
>>> >
>>> > Frenesi escapes with the help of DL (the lady Ninja.)
>>> >
>>> > But Vond catches up with Frenesi - who can’t resist him, which is
>>> perhaps
>>> > due to a touch of battered woman syndrome, although according to this
>>> book,
>>> > at this juncture, villain Vond only uses vigorous sex and verbal abuse
>>> > which are enough to keep her subservient - and he enlists her in his
>>> > informer program, keeping her far away from her husband Zoyd and their
>>> baby
>>> > daughter Prairie. Zoyd has to be a single parent.
>>> >
>>> > 6) student rebellion - details of how in 1968, students briefly took
>>> over
>>> > the (fictional) College of the Surf in SoCal, and called it the
>>> People’s
>>> > Republic of Rock and Roll (PR3)
>>> >
>>> > 7)  Prairie (teenage daughter of Frenesi and Zoyd) leaves home just as
>>> the
>>> > DEA is about to seize the house where Zoyd raised her. As she leaves,
>>> he
>>> > gives her Takeshi’s business card to hold onto.
>>> >
>>> > At first, Prairie travels in the company of her boyfriend Isaiah 2:4
>>> > (hippie parents named him after Bible verse about beating swords into
>>> > plowshare) and his band, “Billy Barf and the Vomitones”
>>> >
>>> > — the band has a gig at a Mafia wedding.
>>> > At the wedding, Prairie visits the restroom, where the old Takeshi
>>> business
>>> > card, that her dad Zoyd gave her, lets out a chime indicating the
>>> > proximity of another such business card - and she meets DL.
>>> >
>>> > They spend some time at the Ninja Nunnery.
>>> >
>>> > DL introduces Prairie to old radical friends of her mother’s, Zippi and
>>> > Ditzah Pisk, who give her access to computer files about the student
>>> > takeover of the College of the Surf, the short-lived People’s Republic
>>> of
>>> > Rock and Roll, or “PR3”, and how her mom betrayed Weed Atman, one of
>>> the
>>> > leaders of the PR3.
>>> >
>>> > Brock Vond’s DEA agents burn down Zippi and Ditzah Pisk’s house.
>>> >
>>> > The book winds up with Zoyd, Prairie, and Frenesi all going to a big
>>> family
>>> > reunion of several generations of radical unionists and lefties,
>>> socialists
>>> > of all stripes.
>>> >
>>> > Frenesi has remarried, not to DEA agent Brock Vond, but to Flash, one
>>> of
>>> > her fellow informers.
>>> >
>>> > Zoyd accepts the situation, and has a beer with her new husband.
>>> >
>>> > Prairie goes off to unroll her sleeping bag in a secluded part of the
>>> > woods. Villainous DEA agent Brock Vond tries to kidnap her, but just as
>>> > he’s about to whisk her away, the Reagan Administration cuts his
>>> funding
>>> > and he tries to drive away but ends up in the land of the Thanatoids.
>>> > --
>>> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>> >
>>> --
>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>
>>