Any suggestions to make this a better quick plot summary for VL?

[David Morris]

Thanks Rich,

The Vorrh isn’t showing great depth.  I’m sure I’ll finish it, but not go
on to the others.  I’ve ordered Seven Killings and Leopard/Wolf from Abe
Books, less than $10 for the pair, delivered free!  Hard to go wrong,
there.  I really like McCarthy, but haven’t read Dahlgren.  Reading fantasy
makes me feel guilty, like someone I’d normally look down upon (also a
guilty admission).  I hope I don’t get hooked on it.  ;)

David Morris

On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 11:47 AM rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey David
>
> I didnt make it through the Vorrh--appreciated the uniqueness of the story
> but its a slog to get through. and there are two sequels. Similar with Alan
> Moore's Jersualem. guess it's rare to have  freshness, digestible yet
> complex prose and heft
>
> speaking of, I think Marlon James has just that. I also appreciate his
> range. His books are offbeat--History of Seven Murders is about alot of
> things but centers around certain criminal gangs in Jamaica. it's hyper
> violent, but has a large cast of characters, including Bob Marley who is a
> tangential character called the Singer.
> His current work is a planned trilogy, called the  Dark Star. The first
> book came out in 2019, Black Leopard and Red Wolf. some called Game of
> Thrones with African myths, but don't think that's close to the richness of
> the fantasy James has created--essentially there is a quest to find a
> missing child, focused on the aforementioned characters and others on the
> quest who visit these strange places. again, hyper violent but also sexual
> (mostly of the homoerotic persuasion)--my bad analogy is Cormac Mccarthy
> (there are a trio of horrific huners of some such in the book that remind
> me of that trio of murderers and worse in Outer Dark) mixed with Dhalgren.
> and, joy of joys, the second book has just been announced Moon Witch and
> Spider King (I do love these titles) slated for February. Seeing as its a
> trilogy, the first book ends with alot of things unresolved and some
> characters not as fleshed out (especially some of the female ones--the new
> book features a female witch as one of the main narratives). I'll have to
> go back and read the first book again as the level of detail was
> considerable and required reading to make any of what goes in the Moon
> Witch sensible.
> James made the switch from earlier historical novel about a slave revolt
> on a sugar plantation (which I still need to read) to a hyper real current
> street-level crime story (written in a somewhat imposing Jamaican
> slang/dialect) to a blasted high-level fantasy that is weighed down
> properly, avoiding so much fantasy that seems so flimsy to me or its a
> disguise for politics and good guy-bad guy stuff and what not. James has
> created his own world. it's great stuff
>
> rich
>
> On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 10:58 AM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Tell more about Marlon James.
>>
>> I’ll soon be looking for my next read after I finish The Vorrh by Brian
>> Catling.  I’m halfway through Vorrh, and liking, but not loving it.  Once
>> in a long while I’ll read sci-fi or fantasy. Vorrh is fantasy with a smidge
>> of steam-punk. It’s narration syntax is sometimes what feels like Edwardian
>> and sometimes a colonized person’s naïveté or deeper obscurity.  The
>> central “character” is the Vorrh, a deepest, darkest forest, and its
>> relationship with its humans, of greater or lesser nativity to the forest.
>>
>> So, what can you tell us about Marlon James?
>>
>> David Morris
>>
>> The Vorrh
>> https://www.amazon.com/Vorrh-Trilogy-Brian-Catling/dp/1101873787
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 10:17 AM rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> D--
>>>
>>> I think Vineland holds up better than IV and BE, if comparing the
>>> 'minor' works, though I don't really have any compulsion to ever read these
>>> 3 again. Vineland resonated with me once, but not anymore.
>>>
>>> Folks were disappointed I guess to hear back from the man after 17 yrs
>>> with Vineland. but we know with M&D and AtD he caught up. and now it's been
>>> 15 years since a 'major' work as I see it.
>>>
>>> But I haven't been enamored of much current fiction anyways, except for
>>> Marlon James
>>>
>>> rich
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 5:11 AM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I really don’t like Vineland.  I tried to give it an honest second shot
>>>> many years ago here in a group read, and I concluded that it is my very
>>>> least favorite Pynchon novel, for many reasons.
>>>>
>>>> David Morris
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 10:19 PM Michael Bailey <
>>>> michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Just trying to give a sense of Vineland to a hypothetical friend or
>>>> two
>>>> > with intelligence but minimal to no literary knowledge, wanting to
>>>> hit the
>>>> > high points
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > 1) even among Pynchon fans it gets disrespected - I never understand
>>>> why
>>>> > (-;
>>>> >
>>>> > 2) it starts out in 1984 with the forces of marijuana Prohibition
>>>> closing
>>>> > in on pothead Zoyd Wheeler, musician and welfare recipient but also
>>>> odd-job
>>>> > doer and gypsy roofer…anything to support his daughter and keep
>>>> building on
>>>> > to his home, which started as a small trailer but now has numerous
>>>> > additions
>>>> >
>>>> > 2a) Zoyd has made a deal with the villainous Brock Vond of the DEA to
>>>> let
>>>> > him keep his daughter Prairie, but he has to do something crazy every
>>>> year
>>>> > to keep collecting SSI so they know where he is, otherwise they will
>>>> get
>>>> > Child Social Services to take away his daughter.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > 3) it flashes back and forth between 1968 and 1984
>>>> >
>>>> > 4) magical realism - a South American literary current, exemplified by
>>>> > Gabriel Garcia Marquez among others, which mixes a bit of fantasy
>>>> into an
>>>> > otherwise straightforward story
>>>> >
>>>> > Vineland has some magical realist elements:
>>>> >
>>>> >  - the Puncutron Machine, which automates acupuncture and is used in
>>>> Ninja
>>>> > nunnery, The Sisterhood of Kunoichi Attentives, to cure the character
>>>> > Takeshi of a kung fu deathblow inflicted upon him in error by DL, a
>>>> lady
>>>> > Ninja. Her penance is to be his bodyguard for a year and a day. They
>>>> > eventually fall in love.
>>>> >
>>>> > - business cards that detect the presence of other business cards
>>>> from the
>>>> > same character (Takeshi) and play a little tune to alert the bearers
>>>> >
>>>> > - Takeshi’s business is Karmic Adjustment & he works with
>>>> “Thanatoids” who
>>>> > are probably ghosts, to reconcile them to the ills they suffered in
>>>> life
>>>> >
>>>> > - a UFO tries to take over a jet flying to Hawaii, but the main
>>>> character,
>>>> > Zoyd, drives them off by playing a B flat on his keyboard. Among the
>>>> > passengers is Takeshi, who gratefully gives Zoyd one of his musical
>>>> > business cards
>>>> >
>>>> > - at one point, there’s a TransAm with a mirror finish, so it’s
>>>> effectively
>>>> > invisible
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > 5) Star-crossed lovers - Zoyd, a musician, marries radical
>>>> photographer
>>>> > Frenesi back in the 60s, but Frenesi is seduced violently by
>>>> villainous DEA
>>>> > agent Brock Vond and persuaded to betray her friends.
>>>> > Even after she does his bidding, Vond jails Frenesi, abusing the
>>>> power of
>>>> > the State, as is his won’t, in order to detain her and sedate her with
>>>> > psych meds.
>>>> >
>>>> > Frenesi escapes with the help of DL (the lady Ninja.)
>>>> >
>>>> > But Vond catches up with Frenesi - who can’t resist him, which is
>>>> perhaps
>>>> > due to a touch of battered woman syndrome, although according to this
>>>> book,
>>>> > at this juncture, villain Vond only uses vigorous sex and verbal abuse
>>>> > which are enough to keep her subservient - and he enlists her in his
>>>> > informer program, keeping her far away from her husband Zoyd and
>>>> their baby
>>>> > daughter Prairie. Zoyd has to be a single parent.
>>>> >
>>>> > 6) student rebellion - details of how in 1968, students briefly took
>>>> over
>>>> > the (fictional) College of the Surf in SoCal, and called it the
>>>> People’s
>>>> > Republic of Rock and Roll (PR3)
>>>> >
>>>> > 7)  Prairie (teenage daughter of Frenesi and Zoyd) leaves home just
>>>> as the
>>>> > DEA is about to seize the house where Zoyd raised her. As she leaves,
>>>> he
>>>> > gives her Takeshi’s business card to hold onto.
>>>> >
>>>> > At first, Prairie travels in the company of her boyfriend Isaiah 2:4
>>>> > (hippie parents named him after Bible verse about beating swords into
>>>> > plowshare) and his band, “Billy Barf and the Vomitones”
>>>> >
>>>> > — the band has a gig at a Mafia wedding.
>>>> > At the wedding, Prairie visits the restroom, where the old Takeshi
>>>> business
>>>> > card, that her dad Zoyd gave her, lets out a chime indicating the
>>>> > proximity of another such business card - and she meets DL.
>>>> >
>>>> > They spend some time at the Ninja Nunnery.
>>>> >
>>>> > DL introduces Prairie to old radical friends of her mother’s, Zippi
>>>> and
>>>> > Ditzah Pisk, who give her access to computer files about the student
>>>> > takeover of the College of the Surf, the short-lived People’s
>>>> Republic of
>>>> > Rock and Roll, or “PR3”, and how her mom betrayed Weed Atman, one of
>>>> the
>>>> > leaders of the PR3.
>>>> >
>>>> > Brock Vond’s DEA agents burn down Zippi and Ditzah Pisk’s house.
>>>> >
>>>> > The book winds up with Zoyd, Prairie, and Frenesi all going to a big
>>>> family
>>>> > reunion of several generations of radical unionists and lefties,
>>>> socialists
>>>> > of all stripes.
>>>> >
>>>> > Frenesi has remarried, not to DEA agent Brock Vond, but to Flash, one
>>>> of
>>>> > her fellow informers.
>>>> >
>>>> > Zoyd accepts the situation, and has a beer with her new husband.
>>>> >
>>>> > Prairie goes off to unroll her sleeping bag in a secluded part of the
>>>> > woods. Villainous DEA agent Brock Vond tries to kidnap her, but just
>>>> as
>>>> > he’s about to whisk her away, the Reagan Administration cuts his
>>>> funding
>>>> > and he tries to drive away but ends up in the land of the Thanatoids.
>>>> > --
>>>> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>> >
>>>> --
>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>>
>>>