GR translation: hair smocks

Tue Apr 12 14:10:03 UTC 2022

It means all books in English.....and since that is a MASSIVE DATABASE,
they do that statistical thing where a certain threshold must be reached
so it can be graphed.......it is a very low threshold....I have seen some
that look like this. . 00000123 % but still that is a measurable number....
so, specifically for the 19th Century almost nothing......same to the
present so far........

On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 8:34 AM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:

> Does “no appearance in works” mean literature? As I showed earlier, Google
> brings up LOTS of ads selling hair salon smocks, so it’s not exactly from
> another planet.
>
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 5:56 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>  "hair smock" has virtually no appearance in any works from as far back
>> as Google's N-grams go, which include the 19th Century. "No valid ngrams
>> to plot!"
>>
>> Should mean that it was not popular at all in the 19th or any other
>> Century.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 10:46 PM Mike Jing <gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I see your point. The specific reference to "hair smocks" still feels a
>>> bit
>>> strange, but I have no idea if this was a common item back in the 19th
>>> century.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 10:06 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > I’m not following your logic.  Forgive me if I have misunderstood you.
>>> >
>>> > 1.  A hair smock is not the same thing as a hair shirt.
>>> >
>>> > 2.  A smock is a protective cover-garment used to keep a person clean
>>> > while doing a job that is inherently messy (such as gardening).
>>> >
>>> > 3.  A hair shirt was an under-garment used in medieval times purposely
>>> > made of irritating material so that a person in ritual penance would be
>>> > uncomfortable.
>>> >
>>> > 4.  It makes no sense, as far as I can see, to think Pynchon was
>>> alluding
>>> > to a hair shirt when he wrote “hair smock.”  If you can’t connect the
>>> two
>>> > different things by anything in the text, Pynchon probably didn’t want
>>> you
>>> > to.
>>> >
>>> > David Morris
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 9:52 PM Mike Jing <
>>> gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> I'm not sure if any penance is involved, but if it is, it doesn't
>>> appear
>>> >> to be related to the rooftop garden.
>>> >>
>>> >> From the poem I quoted, it seems the phrase could be used to refer to
>>> a
>>> >> hair shirt. Why would Corydon Throsp wear them, we have no way to
>>> know. But
>>> >> it doesn't seem any weirder than my initial guess.
>>> >>
>>> >> On Sun, Apr 10, 2022 at 11:05 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> If you are going to make a leap to claim that Pynchon is referencing
>>> a
>>> >>> “hair shirt” when he uses “hair smock,” I think it is incumbent to
>>> have a
>>> >>> rationale other than a desire to impart something “literary” onto it.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> “A hair shirt is a shirt made of rough uncomfortable cloth which some
>>> >>> religious people used to wear to punish themselves. countable noun.
>>> If you
>>> >>> say that someone is wearing a hair shirt, you mean that they are
>>> trying
>>> >>> to punish themselves to show they are sorry for something they have
>>> done
>>> >>> .”
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I can’t think of any kind of penance that makes sense,  in regards to
>>> >>> the roof top garden.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> David Morris
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Sun, Apr 10, 2022 at 10:30 PM Mike Jing <
>>> >>> gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> Given the context, this seems to be more likely. I did find the
>>> exact
>>> >>>> phrase in a 17th century English poem by Richard Lovelace, Her
>>> Muffe:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Nor could your ten white nuns so sin,
>>> >>>> That you should thus pennance them in,
>>> >>>> Each in her coarse hair smock of discipline.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> So it's probably some kind of garment made of coarse cloth.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Sun, Apr 10, 2022 at 5:33 AM Mike Weaver <mike.weaver at zen.co.uk>
>>> >>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> > It's a play on 'hair shirt' and a popular image of the
>>> >>>> Pre-Raphaelites:
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > A self-imposed punishment or penance. The term comes from *the
>>> >>>> medieval
>>> >>>> > practice of doing penance by wearing a shirt made of coarse
>>> haircloth
>>> >>>> (made
>>> >>>> > from horsehair and wool)*, mentioned from the thirteenth century
>>> on in
>>> >>>> > numerous sources, including Chaucer's Canterbury Tales (The Second
>>> >>>> Nun's
>>> >>>> > Tale).
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>>
>>> http://preraphaelitepaintings.blogspot.com/2011/12/william-morris-in-smock.html
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Smocks became popular again in 60s/70s rural hippie culture, as
>>> did
>>> >>>> the
>>> >>>> > 'cultivation' of pharamceuticals!
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > cheers
>>> >>>> > Mike
>>> >>>> > On 10/04/2022 02:43, Mike Jing wrote:
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > V5.20-26, P5.35-41   Bloat is one of the co-tenants of the place,
>>> a
>>> >>>> > maisonette erected last century, not far from the Chelsea
>>> Embankment,
>>> >>>> by
>>> >>>> > Corydon Throsp, an acquaintance of the Rossettis’ who wore hair
>>> >>>> smocks and
>>> >>>> > liked to cultivate pharmaceutical plants up on the roof (a
>>> tradition
>>> >>>> young
>>> >>>> > Osbie Feel has lately revived), a few of them hardy enough to
>>> survive
>>> >>>> fogs
>>> >>>> > and frosts, but most returning, as fragments of peculiar
>>> alkaloids, to
>>> >>>> > rooftop earth, . . .
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > What's a "hair smock" exactly? Is it a smock you wear when you are
>>> >>>> having a
>>> >>>> > haircut?
>>> >>>> > --
>>> >>>> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > <
>>> >>>>
>>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient
>>> >
>>> >>>> Virus-free.
>>> >>>> > www.avast.com
>>> >>>> > <
>>> >>>>
>>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > <#m_95896593026684846_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> --
>>> >>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>
>>
>>> --
>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>
>>