GR translation: hair smocks

Tue Apr 12 12:33:50 UTC 2022

Does “no appearance in works” mean literature? As I showed earlier, Google
brings up LOTS of ads selling hair salon smocks, so it’s not exactly from
another planet.

On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 5:56 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:

>  "hair smock" has virtually no appearance in any works from as far back as
> Google's N-grams go, which include the 19th Century. "No valid ngrams to
> plot!"
>
> Should mean that it was not popular at all in the 19th or any other
> Century.
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 10:46 PM Mike Jing <gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I see your point. The specific reference to "hair smocks" still feels a
>> bit
>> strange, but I have no idea if this was a common item back in the 19th
>> century.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 10:06 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I’m not following your logic.  Forgive me if I have misunderstood you.
>> >
>> > 1.  A hair smock is not the same thing as a hair shirt.
>> >
>> > 2.  A smock is a protective cover-garment used to keep a person clean
>> > while doing a job that is inherently messy (such as gardening).
>> >
>> > 3.  A hair shirt was an under-garment used in medieval times purposely
>> > made of irritating material so that a person in ritual penance would be
>> > uncomfortable.
>> >
>> > 4.  It makes no sense, as far as I can see, to think Pynchon was
>> alluding
>> > to a hair shirt when he wrote “hair smock.”  If you can’t connect the
>> two
>> > different things by anything in the text, Pynchon probably didn’t want
>> you
>> > to.
>> >
>> > David Morris
>> >
>> > On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 9:52 PM Mike Jing <
>> gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> I'm not sure if any penance is involved, but if it is, it doesn't
>> appear
>> >> to be related to the rooftop garden.
>> >>
>> >> From the poem I quoted, it seems the phrase could be used to refer to a
>> >> hair shirt. Why would Corydon Throsp wear them, we have no way to
>> know. But
>> >> it doesn't seem any weirder than my initial guess.
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, Apr 10, 2022 at 11:05 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> If you are going to make a leap to claim that Pynchon is referencing a
>> >>> “hair shirt” when he uses “hair smock,” I think it is incumbent to
>> have a
>> >>> rationale other than a desire to impart something “literary” onto it.
>> >>>
>> >>> “A hair shirt is a shirt made of rough uncomfortable cloth which some
>> >>> religious people used to wear to punish themselves. countable noun.
>> If you
>> >>> say that someone is wearing a hair shirt, you mean that they are
>> trying
>> >>> to punish themselves to show they are sorry for something they have
>> done
>> >>> .”
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I can’t think of any kind of penance that makes sense,  in regards to
>> >>> the roof top garden.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> David Morris
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sun, Apr 10, 2022 at 10:30 PM Mike Jing <
>> >>> gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Given the context, this seems to be more likely. I did find the exact
>> >>>> phrase in a 17th century English poem by Richard Lovelace, Her Muffe:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Nor could your ten white nuns so sin,
>> >>>> That you should thus pennance them in,
>> >>>> Each in her coarse hair smock of discipline.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> So it's probably some kind of garment made of coarse cloth.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Sun, Apr 10, 2022 at 5:33 AM Mike Weaver <mike.weaver at zen.co.uk>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> > It's a play on 'hair shirt' and a popular image of the
>> >>>> Pre-Raphaelites:
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > A self-imposed punishment or penance. The term comes from *the
>> >>>> medieval
>> >>>> > practice of doing penance by wearing a shirt made of coarse
>> haircloth
>> >>>> (made
>> >>>> > from horsehair and wool)*, mentioned from the thirteenth century
>> on in
>> >>>> > numerous sources, including Chaucer's Canterbury Tales (The Second
>> >>>> Nun's
>> >>>> > Tale).
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>>
>> http://preraphaelitepaintings.blogspot.com/2011/12/william-morris-in-smock.html
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > Smocks became popular again in 60s/70s rural hippie culture, as did
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> > 'cultivation' of pharamceuticals!
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > cheers
>> >>>> > Mike
>> >>>> > On 10/04/2022 02:43, Mike Jing wrote:
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > V5.20-26, P5.35-41   Bloat is one of the co-tenants of the place, a
>> >>>> > maisonette erected last century, not far from the Chelsea
>> Embankment,
>> >>>> by
>> >>>> > Corydon Throsp, an acquaintance of the Rossettis’ who wore hair
>> >>>> smocks and
>> >>>> > liked to cultivate pharmaceutical plants up on the roof (a
>> tradition
>> >>>> young
>> >>>> > Osbie Feel has lately revived), a few of them hardy enough to
>> survive
>> >>>> fogs
>> >>>> > and frosts, but most returning, as fragments of peculiar
>> alkaloids, to
>> >>>> > rooftop earth, . . .
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > What's a "hair smock" exactly? Is it a smock you wear when you are
>> >>>> having a
>> >>>> > haircut?
>> >>>> > --
>> >>>> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > <
>> >>>>
>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient
>> >
>> >>>> Virus-free.
>> >>>> > www.avast.com
>> >>>> > <
>> >>>>
>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > <#m_95896593026684846_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>> >>>> >
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>
>
>> --
>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>
>