NP: On the Ukraine thread

[Joseph Tracy]

Your whole argument below boils down to I (JT)don’t have a reasonable and informed opinion because I don’t agree with your more informed and reasonable opinion. 
   Well I have been correct in most cases where I have had your exact argument leveled against me,  so I don’t find it particularly persuasive. 





> On Feb 14, 2022, at 2:04 AM, Martin Dietze <mdietze at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On 14. February 2022 at 00:33:56, Joseph Tracy (brook7 at sover.net) wrote:
> 
> The 'I lived there so I know' argument has always been iffy.
> 
> Yes, that’s certainly true. However at least as iffy is the “I’ve read
> several blogs about it and care about geo politics, so I know” thing. It
> takes quite a bit more to come to a well-grounded opinion. And that’s what
> I am vastly missing amongst holders of views like yours.
> 
> Freedom of alliance has limits, Cuba was allied to Russia and was not
> allowed to set up nuclear missiles. The issue is quite the same.
> 
> I am sure Ukrainians would not mind becoming Nato members after signing
> that they will never have nuclear missiles stationed on their soil. So
> things will be fine, won’t they?
> 
> You wish to call the words of Russian leaders propaganda, as though it only
> applies to them, as though these you name-call as naive and gullible
> leftists have not watched war after war propagated by lies from the anglo
> alliance of US UK CAN AU; as though these outright lies had not cost
> hundreds of thousands in lives, injury, dislocation, and trillions of
> dollars all to accomplish far more harm than what little can be called
> freedom or prosperity.
> 
> Russian propaganda certainly has its share as it has shown to very cleverly
> exploit existing views and existing phobia in their target groups. There
> are quite well-informed people not agreeing with me with who I can lead
> lengthy debates. There are others simply repeating stuff that is known to
> be false and from well-known origins.
> 
> I won’t comment on the rest of your post, since it’s not about Ukraine.
> There’s lots of things to blame the US for, that’s for sure, but when
> living in Ukraine or being closely related to people living there then you
> get a slightly different sense of their magnitude.
> --
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