NP: On the Ukraine thread

[Martin Dietze]

On 16. February 2022 at 09:07:16, Thomas Eckhardt (
huebschraeuber at protonmail.com) wrote:

Am 13.02.2022 um 20:17 schrieb Martin Dietze:

believers". I hope this helps.

No, it does not. Because it is irrelevant and does not prove your claim of
not spreading conspiracy theories. You actually are.

Do you think that the FAZ and the NYT provide misinformation? Do you
believe Putin lied when he said that? What is it?

Putin lies almost all of the time. However here this is not relevant. It
just does not prove your point.

Debaltseve was a severe violation of the treaty. As you dispute this, you
need to have a good proof. What you have provided so far may be “somewhat
interesting”, but it does not prove that the Russian attack on Debaltseve
were not a ceasefire violation.

I also argued that the Minsk Protocol was not cancelled by Ukraine after
Debaltseve. Therefore, everybody still has to fulfil the conditions laid
down in the agreement.

They had no choice because of their hopeless situation in that war. Also
the Western powers put pressure on Ukraine to comply, because they just
wanted to get rid of that conflict, no matter at whose costs.

"Spectacularly ridiculous" you say?

Nuland: "Good. I don't think Klitsch should go into the government. I
don't think it's necessary, I don't think it's a good idea."

Nuland: "I think Yats is the guy who's got the economic experience, the
governing experience. He's the... what he needs is Klitsch and Tyahnybok
on the outside. He needs to be talking to them four times a week, you know."


Nuland: "So that would be great, I think, to help glue this thing and to
have the UN help glue it and, you know, Fuck the EU."

Pyatt: "So let me work on Klitschko and if you can just keep... we want
to try to get somebody with an international personality to come out
here and help to midwife this thing."

Nuland: "So on that piece Geoff, when I wrote the note [US
vice-president's national security adviser Jake] Sullivan's come back to
me VFR [direct to me], saying you need [US Vice-President Joe] Biden and
I said probably tomorrow for an atta-boy and to get the deets [details]
to stick. So Biden's willing."

Nice to read it again. Your “conclusion” is spectacularly ridiculous.

So these two are discussing who they’d like to see in the coming Ukrainian
government. So what? Who was not discussing this at that time?

"Have the UN help glue this thing", "midwife this thing" - if this is
not proof of a conspiracy to determine the future Ukrainian government,
I don't know what is.

So Pyatt wanted to talk to Klitchko. And what? Wasn’t Klitchko’s decision
not to run for president right? Wasn’t it his decision? You claim that
because somebody said he’d want to "work on Klitchko” actually made this
decision for Klitchko?

So poor Ukrainians, like children, need a good daddy to tell them what to
do? Hadn’t they just proven the whole world otherwise?

Come on. This is not only ridiculous. Believing in a US-led conspiracy
effectively controlling Ukraine’s fate after the Maidan revolution is plain
[censored].

I expect neo-Nazi insignia from a neo-Nazi unit. What I do not expect is
the West to arm and train neo-Nazi units.

See, welcome to the real world. Other countries and cultures do not follow
your understanding of how politics and a combat unit interact (or don’t
interact).

Neo nazis in a combat unit will display their symbols. That’s also what the
Russian neo nazis on the other side are doing.

The Azov battalion is a combat unit, not a political organisation. People
there signed up with them for several reasons. Political views most likely
are - for a limited number of people. Professionalism, equipment,
commanders’ quality is - for a significantly larger number of people.

The “Azov - nazi unit” thing is quite clever marketing from Russia, which
itself actively recruits Russian nazis to go and fight for a “Greater
Russia” in the Ukrainian East. No reason for parts of the German left not
to solidarise with them and at the same time condemn the “Ukrainian nazis”
on the other side.