NP: On the Ukraine thread

[David Morris]

Joe,

You really have crossed the line into becoming actually offensive with
these last statements and accusations.

On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 11:27 PM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> More shrill warnings  from White House, UK and press of invasion tomorrow
> that continues not to happen. Party leaders really seem to want a war and
> want to say the only thing keeping Russia from invading is sanctions which
> is clearly lame crap.  I think this is leading toward a democratic defeat
> in Nov. Biden can’t be much more of a duck but he can be even more lamed as
> a leader.
>
> I don’t see or hear credible claims that the Russian Army is occupying any
> part of Ukraine.You keep saying that but that is not being reported.
>
>
>
> The Red Cross reports firing and dangers from mines and unexploded
> ordinace on both sides of east west lines which has picked up again as
> Biden war talk escalates. The ones being killed in this article were on the
> east side of the line. You make it sound that all aggression is from
> Russia. I think you know this is false.  To be honest you seem to want
> Russia to attack. I still think this highly unlkely but the US by saying
> they have intel of flase flag attack can have a real attack, call it false
> flag and who will stop the the killing.  I continue to find Russia’s stated
> demands are resonable and the basis for starting to make peace and allow
> Ukraine to unite with recognition of the rights of all regional interesests
> and ethnicities.
>
>
>
> > On Feb 14, 2022, at 12:10 PM, Martin Dietze <mdietze at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 14. February 2022 at 17:57:41, Joseph Tracy (brook7 at sover.net
> <mailto:brook7 at sover.net>) wrote:
> >
> >>  In fact the deal is not that broken, the lines are the same, there is
> little to no fighting being reported and the remaining  issue is Nato.
> >
> > Nope, it isn’t. According to the Minsk II elections in the occupied
> territories have to be held according to Ukrainian law. There is no way
> that elections deserving that very name can be held there unless Russia
> gives up its claim to keep 100% control over there. The previous
> “elections” were like this: a separatist ran against another separatist
> (which, unlike the first, was not allowed to campaign). Pro-Ukrainian
> parties were completely forbidden. The election was rigged.
> >
> > Ukraine is right not to let this happen. And it is not the dealbreaker
> here, in particular because all this blaming Ukraine is ridiculous given
> the past as I have pointed out.
> >
> >> The only one who cares about Ukrainians is Ukrainians.
> >
> > Sure. That’s nothing new.
> >
> >> If there is stagnation, debt and corruption after the revolution they
> can no longer blame Russia.
> >
> > Wrong. Russia leads war in Ukraine. Every week young Ukrainian soldiers
> are killed by snipers or grenades. Ukraine needs to spend quite a big
> portion of its state budget on its army. Russia blocks free trade through
> the Kerch strait at will causing a big problem for Eastern Ukrainian
> economy. The current situation has lead to foreign companies withdrawing
> from Ukraine and flights being cancelled. These are quite significant
> factors solely caused by Russia.
> >
> > There are of course internal problems, like corruption. However the
> country had been doing relatively well compared to other post soviet
> countries depite of this.
> >
> >>  I said this because politicians rally voters around who to blame, not
> because Ukraine is uniquely problematic. But this tactic can only continue
> through the premise that Russia has or wants dominance. And that looks hard
> to sustain. I don’t think they want your country. What would it add to them
> but endless headaches?
> >
> > Russia does want dominance. The Ukrainians know this very well, because
> they have been the target of Russian “hard power” for quite a number of
> years already (like Russia drastically increasing gas prices in January
> 2005 after Ukraine had “dared” to elect the “wrong” president).
> >
> > When sitting thousands of miles away where it’s cosy and warm, and with
> no foreign army in your country, making such statements about a foreign
> country subjected to war and aggression is a bit … peculiar.
> >
>
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