Umberto Eco - Ur Fascism

Wed Jan 5 12:40:22 UTC 2022

On 5. January 2022 at 10:42:56, Thomas Eckhardt (
huebschraeuber at protonmail.com) wrote:

I think you underestimate their influence. And no, I did not ignore your
long post on Bandera etc. which I mostly agree with.

How well do you know Ukraine to come to this assessment?

Just asking, because I happen to do quite well, having spent a lot of time
there over the last 25 years, speaking the language fluently, having been
involved in two Maidan revolutions - which all lead to quite a different
assessment. And, by the way, that's why I care so much.

 For me, as well as
for some of his his followers, however, Bandera represents the Ukrainian
Nazi collaborators who took part in the Holocaust (whether Bandera
himself took part is beside the point).

The term “collaborator” is wrong. “Collaboration” is usually understood as
voluntary cooperation with an occupying force in order to gain personal
profits from it. The OUN however considered themselves as “allies” of the
axis powers pursuing their own political interest and having cooperated
with them from the mid 1930s, bringing in their own organisational
structures and even fighters. One may argue, whether being “allies” is
morally better, but definitely this term is more correct than
“collaborators”. The OUN-B (Bandera’s branch) left this alliance shortly
after the German invasion.

Regarding "some of his followers", I have explained in length how most of
them see him like a Ukrainian Che Guevara (with as little historic
accuracy), primarily associating him with Western Ukrainian anti Soviet
resistance from 1943/1944 - approx. 1949. Like in any other country there
are of course hard core ned nazis who may well see him for what he was, but
this group is very small, far smaller than comparable forces in Western
European countries like Germany (almost worst), France, …

Search the archives. Random points off the top of my head: The US
Army trained and armed the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion.

First: Azov is not a “neo Nazi Battalion”. It is a volunteer unit formed by
neo nazis, however their political views was not the reason for quite a
number of people to join them. In 2014 they were one of the few units
opposing the Russian invasion that were properly armed and had proper
military commanders, so that one had a chance to make an impact and not end
up as cannon fodder as it would have been in the Ukrainian army at that
time (which was so poorly equipped that it could not even provide boots to
everyone, people went to the front in sneakers).

Please refer to Andreas Umland’s excellent analysis [1, 2] for more.

The sad truth is that the Ukrainian government depended on all the
different volunteer units. Without them the Russian forces would have taken
Mariupol and most likely cut Ukraine off from the Azov sea creating a land
connection to annexed Crimea. Hence US support for them at that time was
necessary and logical.

In the mean time the volunteer units have lost their independence as they
were integrated into the army’s structures and put under army command. I
know that this fact has been vastly exploited using it as “proof” for neo
nazis in Ukraine’s army. From Ukraine’s perspective this step aimed at
sustaining the volunteer units’ military value while getting them under
control, avoiding “state in state” structures.

It is forbidden by
law to condemn Nazi collaborators like Stepan Bandera or Roman
Shukhevych, who have had streets and memorials named for them across
Ukraine.

Really? Please show me that law. Spoiler: this is a fake.

Much hinges on the question of who committed the
massacre on February 20, 2014. I recommmend Ivan Katchanovski on
this subject. This is a good starting point:

https://jordanrussiacenter.org/news/the-maidan-massacre-in-ukraine-revelations-from-trials-and-investigation/#.YbPsYy-B1hF

Katchanovski’s paper has been often cited by people following a “pro
Russian” narrative. However it has been widely contradicted, and his
theories are not generally accepted. However I’ll not dive into a
discussion on conspiracy theories around the Maidan snipers, even though
this could be appreciated as “Pynchonesque” by some 😎

Idefix? The neo-Nazi and "Commander of the Maidan" Andriy Parubiy is not
an important figure?

Not of relevance. The fact that people from various political camps played
some roles in that context does not prove your point, mentioning them looks
anecdotic to me.
In particular over the years since 2014 I have seen how successfully
Ukraine’s struggle for freedom, self determination and democracy has been
delegitimised by completely exaggerated allegations of fascism. Absurdly,
parts of the European left have started solidarising with the proxy
“republics” created by Russia in the East claiming this to be an act of
“anti fascism” which is particularly ridiculous as in those entities Russia
has assembled a full collection of Russian neo nazis, orthodox religious
nationalists etc. (like e.g. Prizrak, Vostok, Rusich, Legion St Istvan, RNU
“Russian National Unity", Russian Orthodox Army) representing a proportion
of right-wing extremists in both their “armed forces” and “governments”
that Ukraine does not get anywhere near.

And the worst: a vast group of “Ukrainian fascism critics” have never been
to that country, do not know anything about its history, culture and
present society, building their “knowledge” entirely on the media (a good
part of which originating from the “alternative” spectrum with unclear
origins, very successfully positioning itself as the better option than the
allegedly “controlled” “mainstream”).

Anti fascism is common sense, not a religion. Unfortunately in Europe good
parts of the political left (which I generally consider myself a part of)
have never understood this and continue staging witch hunts believing
themselves not to be “controlled by THEM” - hey, that’s Pynchonesque again
- but actually following scenarios carefully created and staged by other …
governments). Anyone interested in the technologies involved in this may
take a look at Timothy Snyder’s excellent talk on propaganda from November
2014 [3], all the stuff he mentions we can still observe on a daily basis.

References:

   1.
   https://web.archive.org/web/20150223211906/http://int.hromadske.tv/articles/show/Azov_Battalion_Is_Not_Neo_Nazi_Some_People_Are

   2.
   https://www.researchgate.net/publication/283662345_The_Azov_case_Volunteer_Battalions_in_Ukraine

   3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKFObB6_naw

-- 
Dr. Martin Dietze
[https://www.martins-braindumps.de/]
1. Vorsitzender
Deutsch-Ukrainischer Kulturverein e.V.
[http://www.deutsch-ukrainischer-kulturverein.de/]