How many Ukrainians have to be massacred?

[Joseph Tracy]

Thanks for the reference, H.

 summary from UN doc. Total conflict-related casualties in Ukraine in 2014-20217
OHCHR estimates the total number of conflict-related casualties in Ukraine from 14 April 2014 to 31 December
2021 to be 51,000–54,0008: 14,200-14,400 killed (at least 3,404 civilians, estimated 4,400 Ukrainian forces9, and
estimated 6,500 members of armed groups10), and 37-39,000 injured (7,000–9,000 civilians, 13,800–14,200
Ukrainian forces11 and 15,800-16,200 members of armed groups12)

The warfare was initiated and sustained by the coup government and subsequent Ukrainian regimes, they were the key aggressors attemptingg to force the Donbas into allegiance. Those who refused this allegiance and called for Russian aid suffered the most casualties. When the eastern areas  with Russian aid gained the upper hand militarily then both sides met and signed the Minsk agreement( Text can be read online). This was the basis for all negotiations by Russia and the Donbass leading up the complete unwillingness for Ukraine  to accept what they had agreed to and the continued violence against Donetsk/Luhansk.  Zelensky ran on a promise to make peace but never pursued that promise or took any risks to do so. 

Now we have a war which all sides appear to be losing if human life is the measure, and we are closer to nuclear war than we need to be. 

> On Jun 2, 2022, at 3:58 AM, Hübschräuber <huebschraeuber at protonmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ------- Original Message -------
> Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com> schrieb am Dienstag, 31. Mai 2022 um 22:35:
> 
>> When you ask "How many Russians were massacred before the invasion", what
>> timeline are you referring to, precisely?
> 
> I cannot speak for Joseph but as far as I can tell, the best numbers by a supposedly neutral party can be found here:
> 
> https://ukraine.un.org/en/download/96187/168060
> 
> On p. 2:
> 
> Civilian casualties caused by active hostilities in 2018-2021, per territory: 81.4 per cent in the territory controlled by the self-pro-claimed 'republics'.
> 
> On p. 3:
> 
> "Total conflict-related civilian casualties in 2014-2021
> During the entire conflict period, from 14 April 2014 to 31 December 2021, OHCHR recorded a total of 3,106 conflict-related civilian deaths (1,852 men, 1,072 women, 102 boys, 50 girls, and 30 adults whose sex is unknown). Taking into account the 298 deaths on board Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 on 17 July 2014, the total death toll of the conflict on civilians has reached at least 3,404. The number of injured civilians is estimated to exceed 7,000."
> 
> "Total conflict-related casualties in Ukraine in 2014-20217
> OHCHR estimates the total number of conflict-related casualties in Ukraine from 14 April 2014 to 31 December 2021 to be 51,000–54,0008: 14,200-14,400 killed (at least 3,404 civilians, estimated 4,400 Ukrainian forces, and estimated 6,500 members of armed groups, and 37-39,000 injured (7,000–9,000 civilians, 13,800–14,200 Ukrainian forces and 15,800-16,200 members of armed groups)."
> 
>> When you call Zelenskyy "corrupt", how do you mean, precisely?
> 
> "The Pandora Papers named 38 Ukrainian politicians — the most out of any country — but President Volodymyr Zelensky, who campaigned as an anti-corruption candidate, has yet to respond to the investigation.
> 
> The leaks disclosed that Zelensky, a former comedian, and his partners in show business owned multiple offshore companies, including at least one that was involved in the purchase of several properties in central London.
> 
> Just before his election, Zelensky transferred his stake in one of the companies registered in the British Virgin Islands to an associate who later became the president’s top aide."
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/10/09/russia-ukraine-jordan-lebanon-pandora-papers/
> 
> See also:
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy
> 
> Perhaps not illegal but certainly objectionable. Zelensky also is, or was, the protégé of infamous oligarch/warlord Ihor Kolomoisky (who in 2014 financed the Azov militia and other volunteer units and happens to own a lot of Cleveland):
> 
> https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/who-is-ihor-kolomoisky-
> 
> "Corrupt" is a little harsh, I think, but it is definitely not a good look.
> 
>