How many Ukrainians have to be massacred?

[David Morris]

Somehow I didn’t include the P-List here.

*Мудак німецький гелікоптер*
tries to JUSTIFY Putin’s Genocide in the Ukraine with his version of
history previous to 2/24/2022, but only true Putinistas would call the
conflict in Donbass a “*Russian Massacre*.”  In fact I don’t think I have
EVER heard it called that before Мудак німецький гелікоптер called it that
here.

And then JoeyT (deceptively) tacked Мнг‘s description, below, to a official
UN death count, to once again paint a propaganda picture for us all to
swallow:

>

On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 2:44 PM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the reference, H.
>
>
> *ME:  This (below) ISN’T from the UN*, *just more deceit from the
> ever-lying Мудак німецький гелікоптер.*
>

Pure Russian Propaganda:
>
>> The warfare was initiated and sustained by the coup government and
>> subsequent Ukrainian regimes, they were the key aggressors attemptingg to
>> force the Donbas into allegiance. Those who refused this allegiance and
>> called for Russian aid suffered the most casualties. When the eastern
>> areas  with Russian aid gained the upper hand militarily then both sides
>> met and signed the Minsk agreement( Text can be read online). This was the
>> basis for all negotiations by Russia and the Donbass leading up the
>> complete unwillingness for Ukraine  to accept what they had agreed to and
>> the continued violence against Donetsk/Luhansk.  Zelensky ran on a promise
>> to make peace but never pursued that promise or took any risks to do so.
>>
>> Now we have a war which all sides appear to be losing if human life is
>> the measure, and we are closer to nuclear war than we need to be.
>>
>> > On Jun 2, 2022, at 3:58 AM, Hübschräuber <huebschraeuber at protonmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > ------- Original Message -------
>> > Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com> schrieb am Dienstag, 31. Mai
>> 2022 um 22:35:
>> >
>> >> When you ask "How many Russians were massacred before the invasion",
>> what
>> >> timeline are you referring to, precisely?
>> >
>> > I cannot speak for Joseph but as far as I can tell, the best numbers by
>> a supposedly neutral party can be found here:
>> >
>> > https://ukraine.un.org/en/download/96187/168060
>> >
>> > On p. 2:
>> >
>> > Civilian casualties caused by active hostilities in 2018-2021, per
>> territory: 81.4 per cent in the territory controlled by the
>> self-pro-claimed 'republics'.
>> >
>> > On p. 3:
>> >
>> > "Total conflict-related civilian casualties in 2014-2021
>> > During the entire conflict period, from 14 April 2014 to 31 December
>> 2021, OHCHR recorded a total of 3,106 conflict-related civilian deaths
>> (1,852 men, 1,072 women, 102 boys, 50 girls, and 30 adults whose sex is
>> unknown). Taking into account the 298 deaths on board Malaysian Airlines
>> flight MH17 on 17 July 2014, the total death toll of the conflict on
>> civilians has reached at least 3,404. The number of injured civilians is
>> estimated to exceed 7,000."
>> >
>> > "Total conflict-related casualties in Ukraine in 2014-20217
>> > OHCHR estimates the total number of conflict-related casualties in
>> Ukraine from 14 April 2014 to 31 December 2021 to be 51,000–54,0008:
>> 14,200-14,400 killed (at least 3,404 civilians, estimated 4,400 Ukrainian
>> forces, and estimated 6,500 members of armed groups, and 37-39,000 injured
>> (7,000–9,000 civilians, 13,800–14,200 Ukrainian forces and 15,800-16,200
>> members of armed groups)."
>> >
>> >> When you call Zelenskyy "corrupt", how do you mean, precisely?
>> >
>> > "The Pandora Papers named 38 Ukrainian politicians — the most out of
>> any country — but President Volodymyr Zelensky, who campaigned as an
>> anti-corruption candidate, has yet to respond to the investigation.
>> >
>> > The leaks disclosed that Zelensky, a former comedian, and his partners
>> in show business owned multiple offshore companies, including at least one
>> that was involved in the purchase of several properties in central London.
>> >
>> > Just before his election, Zelensky transferred his stake in one of the
>> companies registered in the British Virgin Islands to an associate who
>> later became the president’s top aide."
>> >
>> >
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/10/09/russia-ukraine-jordan-lebanon-pandora-papers/
>> >
>> > See also:
>> >
>> >
>> https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy
>> >
>> > Perhaps not illegal but certainly objectionable. Zelensky also is, or
>> was, the protégé of infamous oligarch/warlord Ihor Kolomoisky (who in 2014
>> financed the Azov militia and other volunteer units and happens to own a
>> lot of Cleveland):
>> >
>> > https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/who-is-ihor-kolomoisky-
>> >
>> > "Corrupt" is a little harsh, I think, but it is definitely not a good
>> look.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>
>