Germany, experts on Nazism as they say here, tell Russia to fuck off and speak the truth many couldn't see.

[Richard Romeo]

Fair enough. Mr Cohen is allowed his opinion. I don’t think he or anyone outside Russia buys the denazification rallying cry or doesn’t feel sympathy for Ukraine. 

rich



> On Mar 8, 2022, at 5:19 PM, Martin Dietze <mdietze at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Yes, I agree. People of Jewish decendence have made horrible experience throughout history. However feeling ambivalent when Ukraine is attacked by Russia because of antisemitic violence that happened to take place in today's Ukraine, (selectively) adding anecdotes about cosaks and ignoring the fact that antisemitism in today's Russia is huge while at a very low level in Ukraine, seems rather ... unfortunate. An intellectual should be able - and willing - to do a bit more of homework.
> 
> And it just fits too well into the narrative that has been spread by Russia for many years: Ukraine, a country of antisemites with a pogrom tradition reaching back well into the 17th century. It is wrong, and people who buy it usually expose their complete ignorance by doing so.
> 
> 
>> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 at 23:00, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello Martin
>> 
>> All I will say is Mr Cohen's feelings are a personal and subjective reflection. I believe Mr Cohen's argument is more about  how the media portrays complex history. I'm not justifying Putin's actions by any connection to past indiscretions some 80 years ago. One could say anti-semitism in the US is at a very low level as well, but I don't think that makes it any less dangerous. Right now Ukraine is united against Putin and rightly so. I hope the war ends soon. and I hope you are right and that through this horrific experience Ukraine comes out even more united in dealing with its post-war problems
>> 
>> rich
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 3:49 PM Martin Dietze <mdietze at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> A rather subjective view, widely clueless about anti semitism in the whole of the east slavic world, both historically and today. Anti semitism in modern Ukraine is actually at a very low level compared to neighbouring states, first of all Russia. The author does not seem to know about this, hence he feels ambivalent about Ukraine. How perfectly this fits into Russian propaganda. And how damaging it is for a peaceful country invaded and systematically destroyed by an imperial-minded, blood-thirsty dicatorship. And how unsurprising that people who have "always known" about Ukraine as a country with a "nazi problem" now share this stuff. 
>>> 
>>> Being intelligent and educated is not enough. There is no substitute for knowledge. And knowledge only partly consists of what you read. 
>>> 
>>> Utterly disgusted about this (hypo) "critical" attitude unwilling to simply take and name things as they are.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, 8 Mar 2022 at 21:39, Thomas Eckhardt via Pynchon-l <pynchon-l at waste.org> wrote:
>>>> Same in Germany, indeed. Thanks for the link to Cohen's article.
>>>> 
>>>> Am 08.03.2022 um 02:03 schrieb rich:
>>>> > Considering the problem of far-right sympathies in the US Army and
>>>> > elsewhere I can't say I'm surprised. How long did it take the
>>>> > authorities even acknowledge there was a problem. Same in Germany.
>>>> > Whether this issue will be tackled the same way in Ukraine is open to
>>>> > question. It is interesting Israel's somewhat half-hearted take on
>>>> > things though Bennet has met with Vlad recently.
>>>> >
>>>> > anyway, here is another take on Ukraine written by a friend of my
>>>> > girlfriend, who argues that acknowledging and recognizing the wrongs of
>>>> > Putin on Ukraine, he as a Jew is nagged by an ambivalence of such wide
>>>> > support for Ukraine, its citizens/having been involved in some of the
>>>> > darkest days last century against those of his heritage and others.
>>>> >
>>>> > https://www.stltoday.com/opinion/columnists/cohen-mixed-emotions-of-an-american-jew-over-russias-invasion-of-ukraine/article_c214b4fa-7428-5ba7-84b4-93c89953a725.html
>>>> > <https://www.stltoday.com/opinion/columnists/cohen-mixed-emotions-of-an-american-jew-over-russias-invasion-of-ukraine/article_c214b4fa-7428-5ba7-84b4-93c89953a725.html>
>>>> >
>>>> > rich
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Dr. Martin Dietze
>>> [https://www.martins-braindumps.de/]
>>> 1. Vorsitzender
>>> Deutsch-Ukrainischer Kulturverein e.V.
>>> [http://www.deutsch-ukrainischer-kulturverein.de/]
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dr. Martin Dietze
> [https://www.martins-braindumps.de/]
> 1. Vorsitzender
> Deutsch-Ukrainischer Kulturverein e.V.
> [http://www.deutsch-ukrainischer-kulturverein.de/]