Fwd: Germany, experts on Nazism as they say here, tell Russia to fuck off and speak the truth many couldn't see.

[David Morris]

Мудак німецький гелікоптер


You obviously are FULL of uncomfortable information that MOST of us
(mainstream) humans in the world avoid with the limited reasoning of a
electric-shocked K-9.

But I am also reminded of the fact that you have also tried to convince
this list that the 9-11 falling of the Twin Towers was an inside job
perpetrated and covered up by an ultra-deep-state Cabal.

So, please pardon my lack of faith in your powers of reason.

David Morris

On Sat, Mar 12, 2022 at 7:07 PM Thomas Eckhardt <
thomas.eckhardt at protonmail.com> wrote:

> Am 10.03.2022 um 22:47 schrieb rich:
>
> > In Thomas' defense I don't believe he wants to see Ukraine humbled by
> > Putin but pointed out some nasty elements within Ukraine (a virus that
> > effects many countries) in its armed forces and establishment today and
> > historically.
>
> Thank you for reading what I actually wrote, rich.
>
> I don't support Russia's illegal war of aggression against
> Ukraine. I also don't believe, and have never said, that the bulk of
> Ukrainian armed forces are neo-Nazis or, God forbid, that the majority
> of Ukrainians are neo-Nazis. I harbour no ill will towards the people of
> Ukraine and will do what I can for the refugees from Ukraine just now
> arriving in my hometown, just like I would do for refugees from any
> other country.
>
> As for the topic at hand, however, I strongly disagree. No, these are
> not only "some nasty elements" "just like in Russia, US, in Germany and
> elsewhere". I am very well aware of the neo-Nazi problem that exists in
> the German Bundeswehr, especially its "elite troops", which has become a
> lot more concerning in recent years (preparations for the "Day X", death
> lists). Germany, however, has not e.g. integrated a Nazi battalion in
> its armed forces, the SS-Wolfsangel is verboten as a political symbol,
> and we don't name streets after Hermann Göring or Josef Goebbels,
> celebrate their birthdays with torchlight marches or erect memorials for
> them.
>
> For more background on this, I can recommend the Wikipedia articles on
> Oleh Tyahnybok, Svoboda and especially Andriy Parubiy. The last time I
> looked, these entries still contained reasonably good information.
> Follow the links to "Patriot of Ukraine" and "Social-National Party of
> Ukraine". Read about the Right Sector and Dmytry Yarosh. Read up on the
> shootings on the Maidan (Ivan Katchanovski) and watch the videos of the
> pogrom in Odessa whose victims (burned alive, strangled, clubbed to
> death, shot at) nobody here seems to care about - they are "unworthy
> victims", as Chomsky and Herman have it, just like the thousands of
> victims of the shelling in the Donbas region that has been going on for
> eight years now and which intensified in February. Nobody cares for
> them, nobody ever mentions them, it never happened. There are images
> that you will never forget, mostly scrubbed from the internet. The
> murderers of Odessa have been identified but went off scot-free in this
> "young fledgling democracy" which the West supports against Mordor and
> the Orcs.
>
> Ukraine, however, had been a democracy all along, even if its
> democratically elected president turned out to be a corrupt assclown.
> This, however, was not the reason for his disposal in a violent,
> Western-backed coup, which was finalized by Ukrainian right-wing and
> foreign snipers on exactly the day that the foreign ministers of Poland,
> Germany and France had, with the consent of Russia, negotiated a
> reasonable agreement between Yanukovych and the opposition which
> included early elections and the disarmament of paramilitary groups.
> Both Ukrainian snipers (BBC, proudly) and Georgian snipers (Italian and
> Israeli television documentaries) have confessed to these crimes. No,
> the reason for the coup was that Yanukovich had rejected to bring his
> country, Zbgniew Brzezinski's "geopolitical pivot", into the orbit of
> the Western powers via the EU association agreement which, by the way,
> included a section on military cooperation.
>
> I am not necessarily right on all of this, and some of it is indeed a
> matter of opinion and not of the veracity of factual claims. The fact,
> however, that the issues I raise are dismissed out of hand, in a
> Pavlovian response, as it were, and without any evidence, as "Russian
> disinformation", is astonishing. Of course, otherwise it would not be
> possible to continue with the frighteningly Manichean narrative ("light
> against darkness", oh my) which rightfully belongs to 10-year olds who
> have just for the first time watched the "Lord of the Rings" movies.
>
> As for who wields the real power in Ukraine, I recommend reading the
> Grayzone article I linked before. Zelensky was elected on a platform
> calling for deescalation with Russia and implementation of the Minsk
> agreements. When he tried to implement this policy, the Banderites told
> him that they would hang him from a tree or suggested that he might be
> torn to pieces by a grenade if he tried to move into that direction (as
> an aside: you may have noted that the SBU, who some strangely see as a
> credible source of information in the ongoing conflict, has meanwhile
> shot at least one of the members of the delegation negotiating with
> Russia). This was a decision about the most existential issue Ukraine,
> and perhaps the world, faced and the result made resoundingly clear who
> the actual sovereign is. Certainly not the government of Ukraine.
>
> https://thegrayzone.com/2022/03/04/nazis-ukrainian-war-russia/
>
> But perhaps the Grayzone is spreading disinformation? This is always a
> possibility. One would then expect that their claims and the sources
> they used to back up their claims would be debunked. At least, this is
> how we do it in the reality-based community. Others, of course, prefer
> to live in the reality the Empire has created for them.
>
> What to do? The first priority is to avoid WW III. Give Russia the
> security guarantees it needs and has been demanding ever more urgently
> for 15 years or so. Guarantee the neutrality of Ukraine. These are
> legitimate interests. What would the US do, if Russia threatened to
> deploy nuclear missiles in Canada, Mexico or, to pick a random example,
> Cuba? They would rightly perceive this as an existential threat and act
> accordingly.
>
> Also, negotiate, deescalate and, for God's sake, do not send any more
> weapons. This is helping no one but the armaments industry and raises
> the risk that the situation gets out of control.
>
> As for the Nazis: The West should from the beginning have put pressure
> on Ukraine to have no neo-Nazis in government (three Svoboda ministers),
> the police (e.g. Vadim Troyan) or the military (Azov etc.). So, put on
> the pressure now. The Nazis would be pushed back into their fringe
> existence, Russia would lose one of their reasons for their illegal war
> on Ukraine, and the world would be a better place.
>
> This is hard to do, of course, when the founder of the Social-National
> Party of Ukraine, a neo-Nazi and racist, the "Commandant of Maidan" and
> soon to be Secretary of the National Security and Defence Council of
> Ukraine served as the point man of the US embassy on February 20, 2014.
>
> But one can dream.
>
> Now back to Two Minutes Hate.
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