Fwd: Germany, experts on Nazism as they say here, tell Russia to fuck off and speak the truth many couldn't see.

[Martin Dietze]

Fresh statement by Josef Zissels, co-president of Vaad Ukraine (the
umbrella association of Ukraine's Jewish organizations and communities) and
Vice-President of the World Jewish Congress, on the situation in Ukraine.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-we-jews-know-where-putin-s-dehumanizing-language-on-ukraine-leads-1.10654721

On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 at 01:29, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:

> Мудак німецький гелікоптер
>
>
> You obviously are FULL of uncomfortable information that MOST of us
> (mainstream) humans in the world avoid with the limited reasoning of a
> electric-shocked K-9.
>
> But I am also reminded of the fact that you have also tried to convince
> this list that the 9-11 falling of the Twin Towers was an inside job
> perpetrated and covered up by an ultra-deep-state Cabal.
>
> So, please pardon my lack of faith in your powers of reason.
>
> David Morris
>
> On Sat, Mar 12, 2022 at 7:07 PM Thomas Eckhardt <
> thomas.eckhardt at protonmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Am 10.03.2022 um 22:47 schrieb rich:
> >
> > > In Thomas' defense I don't believe he wants to see Ukraine humbled by
> > > Putin but pointed out some nasty elements within Ukraine (a virus that
> > > effects many countries) in its armed forces and establishment today and
> > > historically.
> >
> > Thank you for reading what I actually wrote, rich.
> >
> > I don't support Russia's illegal war of aggression against
> > Ukraine. I also don't believe, and have never said, that the bulk of
> > Ukrainian armed forces are neo-Nazis or, God forbid, that the majority
> > of Ukrainians are neo-Nazis. I harbour no ill will towards the people of
> > Ukraine and will do what I can for the refugees from Ukraine just now
> > arriving in my hometown, just like I would do for refugees from any
> > other country.
> >
> > As for the topic at hand, however, I strongly disagree. No, these are
> > not only "some nasty elements" "just like in Russia, US, in Germany and
> > elsewhere". I am very well aware of the neo-Nazi problem that exists in
> > the German Bundeswehr, especially its "elite troops", which has become a
> > lot more concerning in recent years (preparations for the "Day X", death
> > lists). Germany, however, has not e.g. integrated a Nazi battalion in
> > its armed forces, the SS-Wolfsangel is verboten as a political symbol,
> > and we don't name streets after Hermann Göring or Josef Goebbels,
> > celebrate their birthdays with torchlight marches or erect memorials for
> > them.
> >
> > For more background on this, I can recommend the Wikipedia articles on
> > Oleh Tyahnybok, Svoboda and especially Andriy Parubiy. The last time I
> > looked, these entries still contained reasonably good information.
> > Follow the links to "Patriot of Ukraine" and "Social-National Party of
> > Ukraine". Read about the Right Sector and Dmytry Yarosh. Read up on the
> > shootings on the Maidan (Ivan Katchanovski) and watch the videos of the
> > pogrom in Odessa whose victims (burned alive, strangled, clubbed to
> > death, shot at) nobody here seems to care about - they are "unworthy
> > victims", as Chomsky and Herman have it, just like the thousands of
> > victims of the shelling in the Donbas region that has been going on for
> > eight years now and which intensified in February. Nobody cares for
> > them, nobody ever mentions them, it never happened. There are images
> > that you will never forget, mostly scrubbed from the internet. The
> > murderers of Odessa have been identified but went off scot-free in this
> > "young fledgling democracy" which the West supports against Mordor and
> > the Orcs.
> >
> > Ukraine, however, had been a democracy all along, even if its
> > democratically elected president turned out to be a corrupt assclown.
> > This, however, was not the reason for his disposal in a violent,
> > Western-backed coup, which was finalized by Ukrainian right-wing and
> > foreign snipers on exactly the day that the foreign ministers of Poland,
> > Germany and France had, with the consent of Russia, negotiated a
> > reasonable agreement between Yanukovych and the opposition which
> > included early elections and the disarmament of paramilitary groups.
> > Both Ukrainian snipers (BBC, proudly) and Georgian snipers (Italian and
> > Israeli television documentaries) have confessed to these crimes. No,
> > the reason for the coup was that Yanukovich had rejected to bring his
> > country, Zbgniew Brzezinski's "geopolitical pivot", into the orbit of
> > the Western powers via the EU association agreement which, by the way,
> > included a section on military cooperation.
> >
> > I am not necessarily right on all of this, and some of it is indeed a
> > matter of opinion and not of the veracity of factual claims. The fact,
> > however, that the issues I raise are dismissed out of hand, in a
> > Pavlovian response, as it were, and without any evidence, as "Russian
> > disinformation", is astonishing. Of course, otherwise it would not be
> > possible to continue with the frighteningly Manichean narrative ("light
> > against darkness", oh my) which rightfully belongs to 10-year olds who
> > have just for the first time watched the "Lord of the Rings" movies.
> >
> > As for who wields the real power in Ukraine, I recommend reading the
> > Grayzone article I linked before. Zelensky was elected on a platform
> > calling for deescalation with Russia and implementation of the Minsk
> > agreements. When he tried to implement this policy, the Banderites told
> > him that they would hang him from a tree or suggested that he might be
> > torn to pieces by a grenade if he tried to move into that direction (as
> > an aside: you may have noted that the SBU, who some strangely see as a
> > credible source of information in the ongoing conflict, has meanwhile
> > shot at least one of the members of the delegation negotiating with
> > Russia). This was a decision about the most existential issue Ukraine,
> > and perhaps the world, faced and the result made resoundingly clear who
> > the actual sovereign is. Certainly not the government of Ukraine.
> >
> > https://thegrayzone.com/2022/03/04/nazis-ukrainian-war-russia/
> >
> > But perhaps the Grayzone is spreading disinformation? This is always a
> > possibility. One would then expect that their claims and the sources
> > they used to back up their claims would be debunked. At least, this is
> > how we do it in the reality-based community. Others, of course, prefer
> > to live in the reality the Empire has created for them.
> >
> > What to do? The first priority is to avoid WW III. Give Russia the
> > security guarantees it needs and has been demanding ever more urgently
> > for 15 years or so. Guarantee the neutrality of Ukraine. These are
> > legitimate interests. What would the US do, if Russia threatened to
> > deploy nuclear missiles in Canada, Mexico or, to pick a random example,
> > Cuba? They would rightly perceive this as an existential threat and act
> > accordingly.
> >
> > Also, negotiate, deescalate and, for God's sake, do not send any more
> > weapons. This is helping no one but the armaments industry and raises
> > the risk that the situation gets out of control.
> >
> > As for the Nazis: The West should from the beginning have put pressure
> > on Ukraine to have no neo-Nazis in government (three Svoboda ministers),
> > the police (e.g. Vadim Troyan) or the military (Azov etc.). So, put on
> > the pressure now. The Nazis would be pushed back into their fringe
> > existence, Russia would lose one of their reasons for their illegal war
> > on Ukraine, and the world would be a better place.
> >
> > This is hard to do, of course, when the founder of the Social-National
> > Party of Ukraine, a neo-Nazi and racist, the "Commandant of Maidan" and
> > soon to be Secretary of the National Security and Defence Council of
> > Ukraine served as the point man of the US embassy on February 20, 2014.
> >
> > But one can dream.
> >
> > Now back to Two Minutes Hate.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> --
> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>


-- 
Dr. Martin Dietze
[https://www.martins-braindumps.de/]
1. Vorsitzender
Deutsch-Ukrainischer Kulturverein e.V.
[http://www.deutsch-ukrainischer-kulturverein.de/]