DeLillo adaptations

Tue Sep 13 13:53:22 UTC 2022

I don’t think it’s his best, but yeah, “Suttree” is pretty amazing.

From: Pynchon-l <pynchon-l-bounces at waste.org> on behalf of rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com>
Date: Monday, September 12, 2022 at 8:11 PM
To: Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
Cc: P-list <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Subject: Re: DeLillo adaptations
Howdy

The Passenger comes out next month and Stella in December. I haven't seen
any reviews yet.

I would recommend Suttree--i think it's McCarthy's best.

rich

On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 7:34 PM Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Have you read Zero K and/or Point Omega? I think they're among his best,
> and both are post-Underworld offerings.
>
> Also, and this is open to anyone reading this... have any of you read
> Cormac McCarthy's The Passenger? And, if so, do you have any opinions about
> it, and are you looking forward to its sequel/coda, Stella Maris? It's one
> of the McCarthy's I haven't read yet, and I'm trying to decide which to
> read now (The Orchard Keeper, Suttree, the Border Trilogy, and now The
> Passenger/Stella Maris duology).
>
> Jerky
>
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 12:10 PM Erik T. Burns <eburns at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I think I would have to say that Don DeLillo is my 3rd-favorite writer,
> > after Gaddis & Pynchon.
> >
> > my three favorite books are
> >
> > Libra
> > The Names
> > Americana
> >
> > but I also really really like Amazons, Underworld (really especially the
> > bit published in Harper's as "Pafko At the Wall"), Running Dog, End Zone,
> > Ratner's Star and Great Jones Street. A-and White Noise! I am less
> enamored
> > of the later DeLillo where he finds the desert and his middle-aged white
> > men wander about in it wondering & pondering their collective orbs. It
> was
> > OK in the (relatively) small doses in Underworld, but come on. And I
> > thought "The Silence" was, well, subpar. Still a better read than most
> > books, though!
> >
> > As for Kubrick, he also did a pretty great "Lolita," with VN's "help;" it
> > was somewhat faithful and somewhat unfaithful to the book, like Lo
> herself!
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 2:44 PM Allen Ruch <quail at shipwrecklibrary.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > My own favorite King novel is “It,” followed by “Misery.” And I’d even
> > > throw in the first half of “The Stand”—the Captain Trips part; after
> that
> > > it goes rapidly downhill. But “The Dead Zone” is certainly up there.
> > >
> > > I agree with most of what you say—film and books are very different,
> yes;
> > > for instance, I *love* “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep” *and*
> > > “Bladerunner,” despite the latter only being loosely based on the
> former.
> > > (And Cronenberg’s “Crash” is a great adaptation of the novel, despite
> the
> > > differences. Also his “Naked Lunch.”) But in the case of “The
> Shining,” I
> > > think the book is only mediocre, while the film is a masterpiece. I
> think
> > > that Kubrick improved on King in every way, especially by purging the
> > > narrative of the silly “Oh no! The inanimate objects are coming to
> life!”
> > > bits. In fact, I think Kubrick always does great justice to his source
> > > material—“2001” and “A Clockwork Orange,” for instance. (And despite
> what
> > > Burgess himself prefers, I like Kubrick’s ending better!)
> > >
> > > In my own striving-to-be-humble-but-really-I’m-a-snob opinion, there
> are
> > a
> > > few films that have even bettered the book source material. “The
> Shining”
> > > is my number one example, but I would also put “Jaws” and “The
> Godfather”
> > > up there, and to a lesser extent “Rosemary’s Baby” and “Jackie Brown.”
> > Not
> > > that any of those books were bad, but the movies were definitely
> better.
> > >
> > > —Quail, always up for phenomenological shibari!
> > >
> > > From: Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
> > > Date: Friday, September 9, 2022 at 4:33 PM
> > > To: Allen Ruch <quail at shipwrecklibrary.com>, pynchon -l <
> > > pynchon-l at waste.org>
> > > Subject: Re: DeLillo adaptations
> > > On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 9:50 AM Allen Ruch <quail at shipwrecklibrary.com
> > > <mailto:quail at shipwrecklibrary.com>> wrote:
> > >  (snip)
> > > And Jerky, I hear you: “The Dead Zone” is great. I would only rank “The
> > > Shining” above it (and maaaaybe “Misery”), but Cronenberg did a bang-up
> > > job. After Lynch, Cronenberg is my favorite living director. I also
> think
> > > it’s interesting—Cronenberg hated King’s script for “Dead Zone,” so he
> > had
> > > it rewritten, then rewrote parts of it himself. And it’s pretty
> > well-known
> > > that King hated Kubrick’s “The Shining.” I think it’s funny that the
> two
> > > best adaptations, each by a cinematic genius, both were forced to
> > partially
> > > ignore the author. And if you’ve ever seen King’s own cinematic
> > adaptation
> > > of “The Shining,” hoo boy.
> > >
> > > The main difference being that Cronenberg's Dead Zone is exquisitely
> > > faithful to the novel (King's best, IMO, and the closest he has ever
> > come,
> > > or will ever come, to writing the Great American Novel), while Kubrick
> > > takes great license with King's work (despite being fastidiously
> precise
> > > when translating certain scenes, such as the Gold Room chat between
> Jack
> > > and the bartender, which is taken word for word from the novel). I
> guess
> > > issues arise when you try to determine what's fair and what's not when
> > > comparing a film and its source material, be it novel or play or real
> > life
> > > event. I know I'm not teaching any of you learned dogs new tricks, but
> > > movies are as different from, say, history books, as history books are
> > from
> > > the reality of the lived events themselves. No sense getting tied up in
> > all
> > > kinds of unresolvable phenomenological knots about it. Film and
> > literature
> > > have to work on their own terms, and it has been my experience that the
> > > points of intersection between those two seperate arts are surprisingly
> > few
> > > and far between.
> > >
> > > Jerky
> > >
> > > BTW, I hear *Brandon* Cronenberg’s next movie is J.G. Ballard’s
> > > “Super-Cannes.”
> > >
> > > —Quail
> > >
> > > From: Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com<mailto:
> > jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com
> > > >>
> > > Date: Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 3:23 PM
> > > To: rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com<mailto:richard.romeo at gmail.com>>
> > > Cc: Allen Ruch <quail at shipwrecklibrary.com<mailto:
> > > quail at shipwrecklibrary.com>>, P-list <pynchon-l at waste.org<mailto:
> > > pynchon-l at waste.org>>
> > > Subject: Re: DeLillo adaptations
> > > You guys, man!
> > >
> > > First of all, we're only one novella away from one of Delillo's very
> > best,
> > > IMO, that being ZERO K. A novel which, by the way, would make a
> > tremendous
> > > film for the right director and cast.
> > >
> > > Secondly, how can anyone mention successful Stephen King adaptations
> and
> > > the films of David Cronenberg in the same email, and forget to mention
> > > perhaps the best cinematic translation of King's writing into cinema,
> The
> > > Dead Zone? For SHAME!
> > >
> > > Jerky
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 1:40 PM rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com<mailto:
> > > richard.romeo at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > Interest take, Q (the good Q)
> > >
> > > I somewhat agree with your argument, especially with the
> post-Underworld
> > > novels. I don't hate it, but I can see how his dialogue may annoy
> > others. I
> > > can't say Libra or many bits of Underworld have that quality, in fact,
> > the
> > > historical reproductions of the Bronx in U and Oswald and his ilk in
> > Libra
> > > are tour-de-forces imho. In fact, Libra is probably my favorite
> DeLillo.
> > > It's also interesting that you like Tarantino since I kinda feel about
> QT
> > > as how you feel about DeLillo. the man's work terribly annoys me and
> all
> > > his imitators, the Raymond Carver of the pictures. ugh
> > >
> > > Mike White. hmm. it's been hard for me to like since Chuck and Buck. I
> > > think he's gotten better however--and his female characters are top
> > notch.
> > > the White Lotus is quite good. I didnt like the series with Laura Dern
> > but
> > > the Jennifer Aniston as waitress in a dead town is good, too. White is
> in
> > > it, not sure he directed. I think he did. All that to say, he's not my
> > cup
> > > of tea but he is talented.
> > >
> > > I had a strong DeLillo phase and I will read anything he writes (a
> sadly
> > > dwindling number for writers for me), but the best times are past.
> Maybe
> > > that's just what happens. folks get old, etc. I still will claim the
> best
> > > thing about Bleeding Edge was that you wouldnt have known it was
> written
> > by
> > > some guy in his 70s. and if it is the last one we see from Mr P I guess
> > > that's not a bad way to end things (fingers still crossed of course)
> > >
> > > yr ob'd sv't
> > > rich
> > >
> > > On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 11:57 AM Allen Ruch <quail at shipwrecklibrary.com
> > > <mailto:quail at shipwrecklibrary.com>>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > To begin with a confession, I kind of hate DeLillo. I know he’s a
> great
> > > > writer, and his sentences are perfect, yes, yes, I get it. I’ve read
> > > > several of his books, but abandoned many more. The thing is: I HATE
> HIS
> > > > DIALOGUE. It’s so ridiculously stylized and overly-pretentious for
> me,
> > I
> > > > just can’t get into it. Which is weird, I mean I love Shakespeare and
> > > > Quentin Tarantino; but there’s something about DeLillo’s characters
> > that
> > > > make me *hate* them, and that makes me hate the books, which makes me
> > > hate
> > > > DeLillo’s writing. It’s like Wes Anderson movies: I just want to
> punch
> > > each
> > > > and every character, then punch the director.
> > > >
> > > > Having said that, there has been one solid DeLillo adaptation: David
> > > > Cronenberg’s “Cosmopolis.” He adapts the dialogue pretty straight
> from
> > > the
> > > > book—which makes me hate it (see above)—but the entire thing is
> pretty
> > > > saturated with satire, and I think does a lot of justice to the
> source
> > > > material. And Robert Pattinson is amazing, as usual.
> > > >
> > > > I have very little hope that Noah Baumbach is going to make a good
> > movie
> > > > out of “White Noise,” but at least someone is trying.
> > > >
> > > > Now, how about a prestige-TV series based on “The Recognitions,”
> > written
> > > > and directed by Mike White? That I’d fucking watch! Yeah man, I’d
> watch
> > > the
> > > > fucking shit out of that.
> > > >
> > > > —Quail
> > > >
> > > > From: Pynchon-l <pynchon-l-bounces at waste.org<mailto:
> > > pynchon-l-bounces at waste.org>> on behalf of Erik T. Burns <
> > > > eburns at gmail.com<mailto:eburns at gmail.com>>
> > > > Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2022 at 4:52 PM
> > > > To: rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com<mailto:richard.romeo at gmail.com>>
> > > > Cc: pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org<mailto:pynchon-l at waste.org>>
> > > > Subject: Re: Pynchon at the Beach
> > > > I suppose it would be possible to take White Noise so seriously that
> > one
> > > > entirely misses the point.
> > > >
> > > > I hope that doesn't happen, though I had also hoped no one would ever
> > > make
> > > > movies out of his books. They feel like they might make good movies
> > but I
> > > > don't think they will, really. Kind of like Stephen King, for that
> > matter
> > > > (where, aside from a handful of exceptions including The Shining,
> Stand
> > > By
> > > > Me and Shawshank Redemption, the cinematic versions inerrantly blow.)
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 9:06 PM rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com
> <mailto:
> > > richard.romeo at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > on an another note: the trailer for Baumbach's take on White Noise
> > left
> > > > me
> > > > > scratching my head--I get it's just a first look but it feels or
> > > > suggests a
> > > > > Hollywood 80s Godzilla disaster movie. I'm not sure how DeLillo's
> > > satire
> > > > > translates to film and I consider WN satire. the trailer exudes
> such
> > > > > seriousness which I hope doesn't get all the attention. DD is at
> his
> > > best
> > > > > mixing the humorous with the profound--I'd be shocked and
> > disappointed
> > > if
> > > > > the former wasn;t given its due. Don Cheedle as Murray Suskind
> gives
> > me
> > > > > some hope
> > > > >
> > > > > rich
> > > > --
> > > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> > > >
> > > --
> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> > > --
> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> > >
> > --
> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >
> --
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>
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