DeLillo adaptations

[Erik T. Burns]

I have read those two DeLillo books and while they were hardly dreck they
just didn't do much for me.

On Tue, Sep 13, 2022, 00:34 Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com> wrote:

> Have you read Zero K and/or Point Omega? I think they're among his best,
> and both are post-Underworld offerings.
>
> Also, and this is open to anyone reading this... have any of you read
> Cormac McCarthy's The Passenger? And, if so, do you have any opinions about
> it, and are you looking forward to its sequel/coda, Stella Maris? It's one
> of the McCarthy's I haven't read yet, and I'm trying to decide which to
> read now (The Orchard Keeper, Suttree, the Border Trilogy, and now The
> Passenger/Stella Maris duology).
>
> Jerky
>
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 12:10 PM Erik T. Burns <eburns at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think I would have to say that Don DeLillo is my 3rd-favorite writer,
>> after Gaddis & Pynchon.
>>
>> my three favorite books are
>>
>> Libra
>> The Names
>> Americana
>>
>> but I also really really like Amazons, Underworld (really especially the
>> bit published in Harper's as "Pafko At the Wall"), Running Dog, End Zone,
>> Ratner's Star and Great Jones Street. A-and White Noise! I am less
>> enamored
>> of the later DeLillo where he finds the desert and his middle-aged white
>> men wander about in it wondering & pondering their collective orbs. It was
>> OK in the (relatively) small doses in Underworld, but come on. And I
>> thought "The Silence" was, well, subpar. Still a better read than most
>> books, though!
>>
>> As for Kubrick, he also did a pretty great "Lolita," with VN's "help;" it
>> was somewhat faithful and somewhat unfaithful to the book, like Lo
>> herself!
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 2:44 PM Allen Ruch <quail at shipwrecklibrary.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > My own favorite King novel is “It,” followed by “Misery.” And I’d even
>> > throw in the first half of “The Stand”—the Captain Trips part; after
>> that
>> > it goes rapidly downhill. But “The Dead Zone” is certainly up there.
>> >
>> > I agree with most of what you say—film and books are very different,
>> yes;
>> > for instance, I *love* “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep” *and*
>> > “Bladerunner,” despite the latter only being loosely based on the
>> former.
>> > (And Cronenberg’s “Crash” is a great adaptation of the novel, despite
>> the
>> > differences. Also his “Naked Lunch.”) But in the case of “The Shining,”
>> I
>> > think the book is only mediocre, while the film is a masterpiece. I
>> think
>> > that Kubrick improved on King in every way, especially by purging the
>> > narrative of the silly “Oh no! The inanimate objects are coming to
>> life!”
>> > bits. In fact, I think Kubrick always does great justice to his source
>> > material—“2001” and “A Clockwork Orange,” for instance. (And despite
>> what
>> > Burgess himself prefers, I like Kubrick’s ending better!)
>> >
>> > In my own striving-to-be-humble-but-really-I’m-a-snob opinion, there
>> are a
>> > few films that have even bettered the book source material. “The
>> Shining”
>> > is my number one example, but I would also put “Jaws” and “The
>> Godfather”
>> > up there, and to a lesser extent “Rosemary’s Baby” and “Jackie Brown.”
>> Not
>> > that any of those books were bad, but the movies were definitely better.
>> >
>> > —Quail, always up for phenomenological shibari!
>> >
>> > From: Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>> > Date: Friday, September 9, 2022 at 4:33 PM
>> > To: Allen Ruch <quail at shipwrecklibrary.com>, pynchon -l <
>> > pynchon-l at waste.org>
>> > Subject: Re: DeLillo adaptations
>> > On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 9:50 AM Allen Ruch <quail at shipwrecklibrary.com
>> > <mailto:quail at shipwrecklibrary.com>> wrote:
>> >  (snip)
>> > And Jerky, I hear you: “The Dead Zone” is great. I would only rank “The
>> > Shining” above it (and maaaaybe “Misery”), but Cronenberg did a bang-up
>> > job. After Lynch, Cronenberg is my favorite living director. I also
>> think
>> > it’s interesting—Cronenberg hated King’s script for “Dead Zone,” so he
>> had
>> > it rewritten, then rewrote parts of it himself. And it’s pretty
>> well-known
>> > that King hated Kubrick’s “The Shining.” I think it’s funny that the two
>> > best adaptations, each by a cinematic genius, both were forced to
>> partially
>> > ignore the author. And if you’ve ever seen King’s own cinematic
>> adaptation
>> > of “The Shining,” hoo boy.
>> >
>> > The main difference being that Cronenberg's Dead Zone is exquisitely
>> > faithful to the novel (King's best, IMO, and the closest he has ever
>> come,
>> > or will ever come, to writing the Great American Novel), while Kubrick
>> > takes great license with King's work (despite being fastidiously precise
>> > when translating certain scenes, such as the Gold Room chat between Jack
>> > and the bartender, which is taken word for word from the novel). I guess
>> > issues arise when you try to determine what's fair and what's not when
>> > comparing a film and its source material, be it novel or play or real
>> life
>> > event. I know I'm not teaching any of you learned dogs new tricks, but
>> > movies are as different from, say, history books, as history books are
>> from
>> > the reality of the lived events themselves. No sense getting tied up in
>> all
>> > kinds of unresolvable phenomenological knots about it. Film and
>> literature
>> > have to work on their own terms, and it has been my experience that the
>> > points of intersection between those two seperate arts are surprisingly
>> few
>> > and far between.
>> >
>> > Jerky
>> >
>> > BTW, I hear *Brandon* Cronenberg’s next movie is J.G. Ballard’s
>> > “Super-Cannes.”
>> >
>> > —Quail
>> >
>> > From: Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com<mailto:
>> jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com
>> > >>
>> > Date: Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 3:23 PM
>> > To: rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com<mailto:richard.romeo at gmail.com>>
>> > Cc: Allen Ruch <quail at shipwrecklibrary.com<mailto:
>> > quail at shipwrecklibrary.com>>, P-list <pynchon-l at waste.org<mailto:
>> > pynchon-l at waste.org>>
>> > Subject: Re: DeLillo adaptations
>> > You guys, man!
>> >
>> > First of all, we're only one novella away from one of Delillo's very
>> best,
>> > IMO, that being ZERO K. A novel which, by the way, would make a
>> tremendous
>> > film for the right director and cast.
>> >
>> > Secondly, how can anyone mention successful Stephen King adaptations and
>> > the films of David Cronenberg in the same email, and forget to mention
>> > perhaps the best cinematic translation of King's writing into cinema,
>> The
>> > Dead Zone? For SHAME!
>> >
>> > Jerky
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 1:40 PM rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com<mailto:
>> > richard.romeo at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> > Interest take, Q (the good Q)
>> >
>> > I somewhat agree with your argument, especially with the post-Underworld
>> > novels. I don't hate it, but I can see how his dialogue may annoy
>> others. I
>> > can't say Libra or many bits of Underworld have that quality, in fact,
>> the
>> > historical reproductions of the Bronx in U and Oswald and his ilk in
>> Libra
>> > are tour-de-forces imho. In fact, Libra is probably my favorite DeLillo.
>> > It's also interesting that you like Tarantino since I kinda feel about
>> QT
>> > as how you feel about DeLillo. the man's work terribly annoys me and all
>> > his imitators, the Raymond Carver of the pictures. ugh
>> >
>> > Mike White. hmm. it's been hard for me to like since Chuck and Buck. I
>> > think he's gotten better however--and his female characters are top
>> notch.
>> > the White Lotus is quite good. I didnt like the series with Laura Dern
>> but
>> > the Jennifer Aniston as waitress in a dead town is good, too. White is
>> in
>> > it, not sure he directed. I think he did. All that to say, he's not my
>> cup
>> > of tea but he is talented.
>> >
>> > I had a strong DeLillo phase and I will read anything he writes (a sadly
>> > dwindling number for writers for me), but the best times are past. Maybe
>> > that's just what happens. folks get old, etc. I still will claim the
>> best
>> > thing about Bleeding Edge was that you wouldnt have known it was
>> written by
>> > some guy in his 70s. and if it is the last one we see from Mr P I guess
>> > that's not a bad way to end things (fingers still crossed of course)
>> >
>> > yr ob'd sv't
>> > rich
>> >
>> > On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 11:57 AM Allen Ruch <quail at shipwrecklibrary.com
>> > <mailto:quail at shipwrecklibrary.com>>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > To begin with a confession, I kind of hate DeLillo. I know he’s a
>> great
>> > > writer, and his sentences are perfect, yes, yes, I get it. I’ve read
>> > > several of his books, but abandoned many more. The thing is: I HATE
>> HIS
>> > > DIALOGUE. It’s so ridiculously stylized and overly-pretentious for
>> me, I
>> > > just can’t get into it. Which is weird, I mean I love Shakespeare and
>> > > Quentin Tarantino; but there’s something about DeLillo’s characters
>> that
>> > > make me *hate* them, and that makes me hate the books, which makes me
>> > hate
>> > > DeLillo’s writing. It’s like Wes Anderson movies: I just want to punch
>> > each
>> > > and every character, then punch the director.
>> > >
>> > > Having said that, there has been one solid DeLillo adaptation: David
>> > > Cronenberg’s “Cosmopolis.” He adapts the dialogue pretty straight from
>> > the
>> > > book—which makes me hate it (see above)—but the entire thing is pretty
>> > > saturated with satire, and I think does a lot of justice to the source
>> > > material. And Robert Pattinson is amazing, as usual.
>> > >
>> > > I have very little hope that Noah Baumbach is going to make a good
>> movie
>> > > out of “White Noise,” but at least someone is trying.
>> > >
>> > > Now, how about a prestige-TV series based on “The Recognitions,”
>> written
>> > > and directed by Mike White? That I’d fucking watch! Yeah man, I’d
>> watch
>> > the
>> > > fucking shit out of that.
>> > >
>> > > —Quail
>> > >
>> > > From: Pynchon-l <pynchon-l-bounces at waste.org<mailto:
>> > pynchon-l-bounces at waste.org>> on behalf of Erik T. Burns <
>> > > eburns at gmail.com<mailto:eburns at gmail.com>>
>> > > Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2022 at 4:52 PM
>> > > To: rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com<mailto:richard.romeo at gmail.com>>
>> > > Cc: pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org<mailto:pynchon-l at waste.org>>
>> > > Subject: Re: Pynchon at the Beach
>> > > I suppose it would be possible to take White Noise so seriously that
>> one
>> > > entirely misses the point.
>> > >
>> > > I hope that doesn't happen, though I had also hoped no one would ever
>> > make
>> > > movies out of his books. They feel like they might make good movies
>> but I
>> > > don't think they will, really. Kind of like Stephen King, for that
>> matter
>> > > (where, aside from a handful of exceptions including The Shining,
>> Stand
>> > By
>> > > Me and Shawshank Redemption, the cinematic versions inerrantly blow.)
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 9:06 PM rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com<mailto:
>> > richard.romeo at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > on an another note: the trailer for Baumbach's take on White Noise
>> left
>> > > me
>> > > > scratching my head--I get it's just a first look but it feels or
>> > > suggests a
>> > > > Hollywood 80s Godzilla disaster movie. I'm not sure how DeLillo's
>> > satire
>> > > > translates to film and I consider WN satire. the trailer exudes such
>> > > > seriousness which I hope doesn't get all the attention. DD is at his
>> > best
>> > > > mixing the humorous with the profound--I'd be shocked and
>> disappointed
>> > if
>> > > > the former wasn;t given its due. Don Cheedle as Murray Suskind
>> gives me
>> > > > some hope
>> > > >
>> > > > rich
>> > > --
>> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> > >
>> > --
>> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> > --
>> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> >
>> --
>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>
>