DeLillo adaptations

[rich]

may be a stretch but we know Delillo was heavily influenced by
Goddard--there's a bit of a parallel in that quest for minimalism and such
in both later careers. I respect Goddard immensely but his films are not my
cup of tea--I really do want to to see his 'History of Cinema' at some point

rich

On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 10:05 AM Erik T. Burns <eburns at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have read those two DeLillo books and while they were hardly dreck they
> just didn't do much for me.
>
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2022, 00:34 Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Have you read Zero K and/or Point Omega? I think they're among his best,
> > and both are post-Underworld offerings.
> >
> > Also, and this is open to anyone reading this... have any of you read
> > Cormac McCarthy's The Passenger? And, if so, do you have any opinions
> about
> > it, and are you looking forward to its sequel/coda, Stella Maris? It's
> one
> > of the McCarthy's I haven't read yet, and I'm trying to decide which to
> > read now (The Orchard Keeper, Suttree, the Border Trilogy, and now The
> > Passenger/Stella Maris duology).
> >
> > Jerky
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 12:10 PM Erik T. Burns <eburns at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I think I would have to say that Don DeLillo is my 3rd-favorite writer,
> >> after Gaddis & Pynchon.
> >>
> >> my three favorite books are
> >>
> >> Libra
> >> The Names
> >> Americana
> >>
> >> but I also really really like Amazons, Underworld (really especially the
> >> bit published in Harper's as "Pafko At the Wall"), Running Dog, End
> Zone,
> >> Ratner's Star and Great Jones Street. A-and White Noise! I am less
> >> enamored
> >> of the later DeLillo where he finds the desert and his middle-aged white
> >> men wander about in it wondering & pondering their collective orbs. It
> was
> >> OK in the (relatively) small doses in Underworld, but come on. And I
> >> thought "The Silence" was, well, subpar. Still a better read than most
> >> books, though!
> >>
> >> As for Kubrick, he also did a pretty great "Lolita," with VN's "help;"
> it
> >> was somewhat faithful and somewhat unfaithful to the book, like Lo
> >> herself!
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 2:44 PM Allen Ruch <quail at shipwrecklibrary.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > My own favorite King novel is “It,” followed by “Misery.” And I’d even
> >> > throw in the first half of “The Stand”—the Captain Trips part; after
> >> that
> >> > it goes rapidly downhill. But “The Dead Zone” is certainly up there.
> >> >
> >> > I agree with most of what you say—film and books are very different,
> >> yes;
> >> > for instance, I *love* “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep” *and*
> >> > “Bladerunner,” despite the latter only being loosely based on the
> >> former.
> >> > (And Cronenberg’s “Crash” is a great adaptation of the novel, despite
> >> the
> >> > differences. Also his “Naked Lunch.”) But in the case of “The
> Shining,”
> >> I
> >> > think the book is only mediocre, while the film is a masterpiece. I
> >> think
> >> > that Kubrick improved on King in every way, especially by purging the
> >> > narrative of the silly “Oh no! The inanimate objects are coming to
> >> life!”
> >> > bits. In fact, I think Kubrick always does great justice to his source
> >> > material—“2001” and “A Clockwork Orange,” for instance. (And despite
> >> what
> >> > Burgess himself prefers, I like Kubrick’s ending better!)
> >> >
> >> > In my own striving-to-be-humble-but-really-I’m-a-snob opinion, there
> >> are a
> >> > few films that have even bettered the book source material. “The
> >> Shining”
> >> > is my number one example, but I would also put “Jaws” and “The
> >> Godfather”
> >> > up there, and to a lesser extent “Rosemary’s Baby” and “Jackie Brown.”
> >> Not
> >> > that any of those books were bad, but the movies were definitely
> better.
> >> >
> >> > —Quail, always up for phenomenological shibari!
> >> >
> >> > From: Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
> >> > Date: Friday, September 9, 2022 at 4:33 PM
> >> > To: Allen Ruch <quail at shipwrecklibrary.com>, pynchon -l <
> >> > pynchon-l at waste.org>
> >> > Subject: Re: DeLillo adaptations
> >> > On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 9:50 AM Allen Ruch <quail at shipwrecklibrary.com
> >> > <mailto:quail at shipwrecklibrary.com>> wrote:
> >> >  (snip)
> >> > And Jerky, I hear you: “The Dead Zone” is great. I would only rank
> “The
> >> > Shining” above it (and maaaaybe “Misery”), but Cronenberg did a
> bang-up
> >> > job. After Lynch, Cronenberg is my favorite living director. I also
> >> think
> >> > it’s interesting—Cronenberg hated King’s script for “Dead Zone,” so he
> >> had
> >> > it rewritten, then rewrote parts of it himself. And it’s pretty
> >> well-known
> >> > that King hated Kubrick’s “The Shining.” I think it’s funny that the
> two
> >> > best adaptations, each by a cinematic genius, both were forced to
> >> partially
> >> > ignore the author. And if you’ve ever seen King’s own cinematic
> >> adaptation
> >> > of “The Shining,” hoo boy.
> >> >
> >> > The main difference being that Cronenberg's Dead Zone is exquisitely
> >> > faithful to the novel (King's best, IMO, and the closest he has ever
> >> come,
> >> > or will ever come, to writing the Great American Novel), while Kubrick
> >> > takes great license with King's work (despite being fastidiously
> precise
> >> > when translating certain scenes, such as the Gold Room chat between
> Jack
> >> > and the bartender, which is taken word for word from the novel). I
> guess
> >> > issues arise when you try to determine what's fair and what's not when
> >> > comparing a film and its source material, be it novel or play or real
> >> life
> >> > event. I know I'm not teaching any of you learned dogs new tricks, but
> >> > movies are as different from, say, history books, as history books are
> >> from
> >> > the reality of the lived events themselves. No sense getting tied up
> in
> >> all
> >> > kinds of unresolvable phenomenological knots about it. Film and
> >> literature
> >> > have to work on their own terms, and it has been my experience that
> the
> >> > points of intersection between those two seperate arts are
> surprisingly
> >> few
> >> > and far between.
> >> >
> >> > Jerky
> >> >
> >> > BTW, I hear *Brandon* Cronenberg’s next movie is J.G. Ballard’s
> >> > “Super-Cannes.”
> >> >
> >> > —Quail
> >> >
> >> > From: Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com<mailto:
> >> jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com
> >> > >>
> >> > Date: Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 3:23 PM
> >> > To: rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com<mailto:richard.romeo at gmail.com>>
> >> > Cc: Allen Ruch <quail at shipwrecklibrary.com<mailto:
> >> > quail at shipwrecklibrary.com>>, P-list <pynchon-l at waste.org<mailto:
> >> > pynchon-l at waste.org>>
> >> > Subject: Re: DeLillo adaptations
> >> > You guys, man!
> >> >
> >> > First of all, we're only one novella away from one of Delillo's very
> >> best,
> >> > IMO, that being ZERO K. A novel which, by the way, would make a
> >> tremendous
> >> > film for the right director and cast.
> >> >
> >> > Secondly, how can anyone mention successful Stephen King adaptations
> and
> >> > the films of David Cronenberg in the same email, and forget to mention
> >> > perhaps the best cinematic translation of King's writing into cinema,
> >> The
> >> > Dead Zone? For SHAME!
> >> >
> >> > Jerky
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 1:40 PM rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com<mailto:
> >> > richard.romeo at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >> > Interest take, Q (the good Q)
> >> >
> >> > I somewhat agree with your argument, especially with the
> post-Underworld
> >> > novels. I don't hate it, but I can see how his dialogue may annoy
> >> others. I
> >> > can't say Libra or many bits of Underworld have that quality, in fact,
> >> the
> >> > historical reproductions of the Bronx in U and Oswald and his ilk in
> >> Libra
> >> > are tour-de-forces imho. In fact, Libra is probably my favorite
> DeLillo.
> >> > It's also interesting that you like Tarantino since I kinda feel about
> >> QT
> >> > as how you feel about DeLillo. the man's work terribly annoys me and
> all
> >> > his imitators, the Raymond Carver of the pictures. ugh
> >> >
> >> > Mike White. hmm. it's been hard for me to like since Chuck and Buck. I
> >> > think he's gotten better however--and his female characters are top
> >> notch.
> >> > the White Lotus is quite good. I didnt like the series with Laura Dern
> >> but
> >> > the Jennifer Aniston as waitress in a dead town is good, too. White is
> >> in
> >> > it, not sure he directed. I think he did. All that to say, he's not my
> >> cup
> >> > of tea but he is talented.
> >> >
> >> > I had a strong DeLillo phase and I will read anything he writes (a
> sadly
> >> > dwindling number for writers for me), but the best times are past.
> Maybe
> >> > that's just what happens. folks get old, etc. I still will claim the
> >> best
> >> > thing about Bleeding Edge was that you wouldnt have known it was
> >> written by
> >> > some guy in his 70s. and if it is the last one we see from Mr P I
> guess
> >> > that's not a bad way to end things (fingers still crossed of course)
> >> >
> >> > yr ob'd sv't
> >> > rich
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 11:57 AM Allen Ruch <
> quail at shipwrecklibrary.com
> >> > <mailto:quail at shipwrecklibrary.com>>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > To begin with a confession, I kind of hate DeLillo. I know he’s a
> >> great
> >> > > writer, and his sentences are perfect, yes, yes, I get it. I’ve read
> >> > > several of his books, but abandoned many more. The thing is: I HATE
> >> HIS
> >> > > DIALOGUE. It’s so ridiculously stylized and overly-pretentious for
> >> me, I
> >> > > just can’t get into it. Which is weird, I mean I love Shakespeare
> and
> >> > > Quentin Tarantino; but there’s something about DeLillo’s characters
> >> that
> >> > > make me *hate* them, and that makes me hate the books, which makes
> me
> >> > hate
> >> > > DeLillo’s writing. It’s like Wes Anderson movies: I just want to
> punch
> >> > each
> >> > > and every character, then punch the director.
> >> > >
> >> > > Having said that, there has been one solid DeLillo adaptation: David
> >> > > Cronenberg’s “Cosmopolis.” He adapts the dialogue pretty straight
> from
> >> > the
> >> > > book—which makes me hate it (see above)—but the entire thing is
> pretty
> >> > > saturated with satire, and I think does a lot of justice to the
> source
> >> > > material. And Robert Pattinson is amazing, as usual.
> >> > >
> >> > > I have very little hope that Noah Baumbach is going to make a good
> >> movie
> >> > > out of “White Noise,” but at least someone is trying.
> >> > >
> >> > > Now, how about a prestige-TV series based on “The Recognitions,”
> >> written
> >> > > and directed by Mike White? That I’d fucking watch! Yeah man, I’d
> >> watch
> >> > the
> >> > > fucking shit out of that.
> >> > >
> >> > > —Quail
> >> > >
> >> > > From: Pynchon-l <pynchon-l-bounces at waste.org<mailto:
> >> > pynchon-l-bounces at waste.org>> on behalf of Erik T. Burns <
> >> > > eburns at gmail.com<mailto:eburns at gmail.com>>
> >> > > Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2022 at 4:52 PM
> >> > > To: rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com<mailto:richard.romeo at gmail.com>>
> >> > > Cc: pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org<mailto:pynchon-l at waste.org>>
> >> > > Subject: Re: Pynchon at the Beach
> >> > > I suppose it would be possible to take White Noise so seriously that
> >> one
> >> > > entirely misses the point.
> >> > >
> >> > > I hope that doesn't happen, though I had also hoped no one would
> ever
> >> > make
> >> > > movies out of his books. They feel like they might make good movies
> >> but I
> >> > > don't think they will, really. Kind of like Stephen King, for that
> >> matter
> >> > > (where, aside from a handful of exceptions including The Shining,
> >> Stand
> >> > By
> >> > > Me and Shawshank Redemption, the cinematic versions inerrantly
> blow.)
> >> > >
> >> > > On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 9:06 PM rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com
> <mailto:
> >> > richard.romeo at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > on an another note: the trailer for Baumbach's take on White Noise
> >> left
> >> > > me
> >> > > > scratching my head--I get it's just a first look but it feels or
> >> > > suggests a
> >> > > > Hollywood 80s Godzilla disaster movie. I'm not sure how DeLillo's
> >> > satire
> >> > > > translates to film and I consider WN satire. the trailer exudes
> such
> >> > > > seriousness which I hope doesn't get all the attention. DD is at
> his
> >> > best
> >> > > > mixing the humorous with the profound--I'd be shocked and
> >> disappointed
> >> > if
> >> > > > the former wasn;t given its due. Don Cheedle as Murray Suskind
> >> gives me
> >> > > > some hope
> >> > > >
> >> > > > rich
> >> > > --
> >> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >> > >
> >> > --
> >> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >> > --
> >> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >> >
> >> --
> >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >>
> >
> --
> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>