Ukraine

[Mark Kohut]

of 20,000 dead Russians, 6,500 happened last week,LOL, all sources are
estimating. (Ukraine counts only verified bodies)
https://twitter.com/imminent_news/status/1624760074018123777?s=20&t=3-hJ5A1pE-CTL5LFrMTADA

On Sat, Feb 11, 2023 at 9:51 PM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> Your only valid point is that ‘ethnic Russians’ is an oversimplification
> though there are many ethnic Russians and there is a great deal of
> intermarriage and a strong majority who speak Russian which is a  cultural
> statement. The thing is they did not accept the coup as valid and were
> attacked both culturally and militarily after the coup. They also led the
> original fighting with  actual Ukrainian fascists who adorn themselves with
> Nazi insignias and regulalrly heroize Stephan Bandera . The people of the
> Donbass fought and  voted for their current status  and continue to defend
> their choices.
>
> Calling the professional observers of the UN sponsored OCSE “Rascist"
> propagandists is a pretty low level of argument. But that seems to be what
> you are left with.
>
> Then it appears you want us to belive that the people of the Donbass were
> shelling themselves.  Please. Like the Russians blew a hole in their own
> pipeline. Sure.
>
> Saying "I thought they were Russians" is weak also, they were still part
> of Ukraine and remained so  after the Minsk accords, which both sides
> agreed to, but which Eastern Ukraine and Germany saw only as a way to buy
> time to rebuild Ukraines military. Super Scummy.
>
>
> As to your background expertise I  don’t know or trust you, but let others
> decide for themselves. Your proposed concern for the Ukrainian people looks
> completely non-credible to me.I warned early in the course of the conflict
> and its discussion on the list that your ideas, reflecting exactly the US
> and Zelensky positions was going to cost the people of Ukraine  enormously
> and accomplish nothing to return the Donbass or Crimea. After 180-200
> thousand  Ukrainian dead, and total dead and wounded up to 300 thousand+
> Ukrainian casualties, and with the far smaller  20 thousand Russian deaths
> and all military progress having been made by Russia, my asessment stands.
> Feeding Ukrainians into this proxy war is sickening and you still seem to
> support it.
>
> Your step down from argument to insult  is not particulalry persuasive.  “
> conspiracy bullshit, Racist propaganda,  ignorant”
>
> > On Feb 11, 2023, at 9:46 AM, Martin Dietze <mdietze at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I really did not want to react to this conspiracy bullshit anymore,
> >
> > On Sat, 11 Feb 2023 at 15:25, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
> >
> >> *"On February 16, 2022, a full week before Putin sent combat troops into
> >> Ukraine, the Ukrainian Army began the heavy bombardment of the area *
> >
> >
> > Wrong. This is simply made up. Sources trace back to Rashist propaganda.
> >
> >
> > *(in east Ukraine) occupied by mainly ethnic Russians.*
> >
> >
> > Wrong. You want to catch up with the region's history, also learn
> > understand that in postcolonial societies primary language of
> communication
> > not necessarily corresponds to ethnicity or even self-perceived identity.
> >
> > Mike Whitney (and you, since you share his text) really has no clue about
> > Ukraine. Him being an editor on Eastern Europe does not mean a thing
> here,
> > because Eastern Europe is not exactly small, and traditionally people
> have
> > concentrated on Russia and adapted Russian narratives on other Eastern
> > European countries.
> >
> > His nonsense fits well into some people's (ignorant) beliefs. That's how
> > people start being considered "experts" nowadays. Ouch.
> >
> >
> >
> >> * Officials from the Observer Mission of the Organization for Security
> and
> >> Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) were located in the vicinity at the time
> and
> >> kept a record of the shelling as it took place. What the OSCE discovered
> >> was that the bombardment dramatically intensified as the week went on
> until
> >> it reached a peak on February 19, when a total of 2,026 artillery
> strikes
> >> were recorded. *
> >
> >
> > Yup, there may have been shelling, but not by Ukrainian forces.
> >
> >
> > *Keep in mind, the Ukrainian Army was, in fact, shelling civilian areas
> >> along the Line of Contact that were occupied by other Ukrainians.” *
> >
> >
> > I thought it was Russians living there? Mike seems confused. Doesn't
> > surprise me.
> >
> >
> > * While it might be in vogue for people, organizations, and governments
> in
> >> the West to embrace the knee-jerk conclusion that Russia’s military
> >> intervention constitutes a wanton violation of the United Nations
> Charter
> >> and, as such, constitutes an illegal war of aggression,*
> >
> >
> > It is. What else should this be?
> >
> >
> >> * the uncomfortable truth is that, of all the claims made regarding the
> >> legality of pre-emption under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter,
> >> Russia’s justification for invading Ukraine is on solid legal ground.”
> >> (“Russia, Ukraine & the Law of War: Crime of Aggression
> >> <
> https://consortiumnews.com/2022/03/29/russia-ukraine-the-law-of-war-crime-of-aggression/
> >> <
> https://consortiumnews.com/2022/03/29/russia-ukraine-the-law-of-war-crime-of-aggression/
> >>**”,
> >> Consortium News)*
> >>
> >
> > Scott Ritter. This time not for RT but consortiumnews. That changes
> > everything, doesn't it?
> >
> > This whole stuff is just so ridiculous that it should really be ignored.
> >
> > End of transmission.
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Martin Dietze
> > [https://www.martins-braindumps.de/]
> >
> > 1. Vorsitzender - Deutsch-Ukrainischer Kulturverein e.V.
> > Голова - Німецько-Українське Товариство Культури
> > [http://www.deutsch-ukrainischer-kulturverein.de/]
> >
> > Redakteur / Редактор - Karpaty Lviv Nachrichten
> > [https://karpaty-lviv-nachrichten.com]
> > --
> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>
>
>
> --
> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>