Ukraine

Sun Feb 12 20:47:25 UTC 2023

Ukraine only counts CONFIRMED deaths. Done conservatively and carefully.

https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1624725250477903878?s=20&t=zxWIVdDigVVxs6us6hJbTA

Senior U.S. officials said this week that they believe the number for
Russia is closer to 200,000. That toll, in just 11 months, is eight times
higher than American casualties in two decades of war in Afghanistan.

>From Moscow itself:
[image: The Moscow Times] <https://www.themoscowtimes.com/>
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RU <https://moscowtimes.ru/>
As Russia’s Losses in Ukraine Spike, Those Tracking the Deaths Are
Overwhelmed
<https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/02/10/as-russias-losses-in-ukraine-spike-those-tracking-the-deaths-are-overwhelmed-a80173>

Nearly 5500 Russians Killed Last Week in War - Newsweek
https://www.newsweek.com › World › Russia › Ukraine
<https://www.newsweek.com/nearly-5500-russians-killed-last-week-war-defense-ministry-1777316>
Jan 28, 2023 — The daily and weekly death toll of Russian soldiers fighting
in Ukraine keeps rapidly climbing, the defense department in Ukraine claims.

Russia suffers highest casualties since first week of invasion – UK
intelligence

The latest defence intelligence update from the UK Ministry of Defence says
that over the past two weeks, Russia has likely suffered its highest rate
of casualties since the first week of the invasion of Ukraine
<https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine>.

The update, posted to Twitter, continues:

The Ukrainian General Staff release daily statistics on Russian casualties.
Although Defence Intelligence cannot verify Ukraine’s methodology, the
trends the data illustrate are likely accurate.

The mean average for the last seven days was 824 casualties per day, over
four times the rate reported over June-July 2022. Ukraine also continues to
suffer a high attrition rate.

The uptick in Russian casualties is likely due to a range of factors
including lack of trained personnel, coordination, and resources across the
front – this is exemplified in Vuhledar and Bakhmu

On Sun, Feb 12, 2023 at 3:30 PM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:

> One has to have read Joseph on the supposed quoted 20,000 dead Russians,
> when in reality the number is
> OVER 138,000 which is what the LOL is about; it is about Joseph's
> blindness against the world's knowledge---
> I have sent but will send around again the world's estimate of that
> figure...
>
> Twitter can give one confirmed facts; articles that show their facts,
> etc.....it is not as if this is one person's guess, not mine nor anyone's...
> I will send that again too...
>
> On Sun, Feb 12, 2023 at 3:21 PM Tara Brady <madame.brady at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "...of 20,000 dead Russians, 6,500 happened last week,LOL"
>>
>> Golly.
>>
>> I'm not going to comment on the wisdom - or lack thereof - in getting
>> one's news from Twitter. Nor about the entirely bogus-looking source that
>> has "Breathe" as a headline on its higgledy piggledy website.
>>
>> But "20,000 dead LOL"
>>
>> That's amusing?
>>
>> From a European perspective: My goodness.
>>
>> Tara
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 12 Feb 2023 at 13:38, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> of 20,000 dead Russians, 6,500 happened last week,LOL, all sources are
>>> estimating. (Ukraine counts only verified bodies)
>>>
>>> https://twitter.com/imminent_news/status/1624760074018123777?s=20&t=3-hJ5A1pE-CTL5LFrMTADA
>>>
>>> On Sat, Feb 11, 2023 at 9:51 PM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Your only valid point is that ‘ethnic Russians’ is an
>>> oversimplification
>>> > though there are many ethnic Russians and there is a great deal of
>>> > intermarriage and a strong majority who speak Russian which is a
>>> cultural
>>> > statement. The thing is they did not accept the coup as valid and were
>>> > attacked both culturally and militarily after the coup. They also led
>>> the
>>> > original fighting with  actual Ukrainian fascists who adorn themselves
>>> with
>>> > Nazi insignias and regulalrly heroize Stephan Bandera . The people of
>>> the
>>> > Donbass fought and  voted for their current status  and continue to
>>> defend
>>> > their choices.
>>> >
>>> > Calling the professional observers of the UN sponsored OCSE “Rascist"
>>> > propagandists is a pretty low level of argument. But that seems to be
>>> what
>>> > you are left with.
>>> >
>>> > Then it appears you want us to belive that the people of the Donbass
>>> were
>>> > shelling themselves.  Please. Like the Russians blew a hole in their
>>> own
>>> > pipeline. Sure.
>>> >
>>> > Saying "I thought they were Russians" is weak also, they were still
>>> part
>>> > of Ukraine and remained so  after the Minsk accords, which both sides
>>> > agreed to, but which Eastern Ukraine and Germany saw only as a way to
>>> buy
>>> > time to rebuild Ukraines military. Super Scummy.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > As to your background expertise I  don’t know or trust you, but let
>>> others
>>> > decide for themselves. Your proposed concern for the Ukrainian people
>>> looks
>>> > completely non-credible to me.I warned early in the course of the
>>> conflict
>>> > and its discussion on the list that your ideas, reflecting exactly the
>>> US
>>> > and Zelensky positions was going to cost the people of Ukraine
>>> enormously
>>> > and accomplish nothing to return the Donbass or Crimea. After 180-200
>>> > thousand  Ukrainian dead, and total dead and wounded up to 300
>>> thousand+
>>> > Ukrainian casualties, and with the far smaller  20 thousand Russian
>>> deaths
>>> > and all military progress having been made by Russia, my asessment
>>> stands.
>>> > Feeding Ukrainians into this proxy war is sickening and you still seem
>>> to
>>> > support it.
>>> >
>>> > Your step down from argument to insult  is not particulalry
>>> persuasive.  “
>>> > conspiracy bullshit, Racist propaganda,  ignorant”
>>> >
>>> > > On Feb 11, 2023, at 9:46 AM, Martin Dietze <mdietze at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > I really did not want to react to this conspiracy bullshit anymore,
>>> > >
>>> > > On Sat, 11 Feb 2023 at 15:25, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >> *"On February 16, 2022, a full week before Putin sent combat troops
>>> into
>>> > >> Ukraine, the Ukrainian Army began the heavy bombardment of the area
>>> *
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Wrong. This is simply made up. Sources trace back to Rashist
>>> propaganda.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > *(in east Ukraine) occupied by mainly ethnic Russians.*
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Wrong. You want to catch up with the region's history, also learn
>>> > > understand that in postcolonial societies primary language of
>>> > communication
>>> > > not necessarily corresponds to ethnicity or even self-perceived
>>> identity.
>>> > >
>>> > > Mike Whitney (and you, since you share his text) really has no clue
>>> about
>>> > > Ukraine. Him being an editor on Eastern Europe does not mean a thing
>>> > here,
>>> > > because Eastern Europe is not exactly small, and traditionally people
>>> > have
>>> > > concentrated on Russia and adapted Russian narratives on other
>>> Eastern
>>> > > European countries.
>>> > >
>>> > > His nonsense fits well into some people's (ignorant) beliefs. That's
>>> how
>>> > > people start being considered "experts" nowadays. Ouch.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >> * Officials from the Observer Mission of the Organization for
>>> Security
>>> > and
>>> > >> Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) were located in the vicinity at the
>>> time
>>> > and
>>> > >> kept a record of the shelling as it took place. What the OSCE
>>> discovered
>>> > >> was that the bombardment dramatically intensified as the week went
>>> on
>>> > until
>>> > >> it reached a peak on February 19, when a total of 2,026 artillery
>>> > strikes
>>> > >> were recorded. *
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Yup, there may have been shelling, but not by Ukrainian forces.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > *Keep in mind, the Ukrainian Army was, in fact, shelling civilian
>>> areas
>>> > >> along the Line of Contact that were occupied by other Ukrainians.” *
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > I thought it was Russians living there? Mike seems confused. Doesn't
>>> > > surprise me.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > * While it might be in vogue for people, organizations, and
>>> governments
>>> > in
>>> > >> the West to embrace the knee-jerk conclusion that Russia’s military
>>> > >> intervention constitutes a wanton violation of the United Nations
>>> > Charter
>>> > >> and, as such, constitutes an illegal war of aggression,*
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > It is. What else should this be?
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >> * the uncomfortable truth is that, of all the claims made regarding
>>> the
>>> > >> legality of pre-emption under Article 51 of the United Nations
>>> Charter,
>>> > >> Russia’s justification for invading Ukraine is on solid legal
>>> ground.”
>>> > >> (“Russia, Ukraine & the Law of War: Crime of Aggression
>>> > >> <
>>> >
>>> https://consortiumnews.com/2022/03/29/russia-ukraine-the-law-of-war-crime-of-aggression/
>>> > >> <
>>> >
>>> https://consortiumnews.com/2022/03/29/russia-ukraine-the-law-of-war-crime-of-aggression/
>>> > >>**”,
>>> > >> Consortium News)*
>>> > >>
>>> > >
>>> > > Scott Ritter. This time not for RT but consortiumnews. That changes
>>> > > everything, doesn't it?
>>> > >
>>> > > This whole stuff is just so ridiculous that it should really be
>>> ignored.
>>> > >
>>> > > End of transmission.
>>> > >
>>> > > --
>>> > > Dr. Martin Dietze
>>> > > [https://www.martins-braindumps.de/]
>>> > >
>>> > > 1. Vorsitzender - Deutsch-Ukrainischer Kulturverein e.V.
>>> > > Голова - Німецько-Українське Товариство Культури
>>> > > [http://www.deutsch-ukrainischer-kulturverein.de/]
>>> > >
>>> > > Redakteur / Редактор - Karpaty Lviv Nachrichten
>>> > > [https://karpaty-lviv-nachrichten.com]
>>> > > --
>>> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>> >
>>> --
>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>
>>