Ukraine

Sun Feb 12 20:30:37 UTC 2023

One has to have read Joseph on the supposed quoted 20,000 dead Russians,
when in reality the number is
OVER 138,000 which is what the LOL is about; it is about Joseph's blindness
against the world's knowledge---
I have sent but will send around again the world's estimate of that
figure...

Twitter can give one confirmed facts; articles that show their facts,
etc.....it is not as if this is one person's guess, not mine nor anyone's...
I will send that again too...

On Sun, Feb 12, 2023 at 3:21 PM Tara Brady <madame.brady at gmail.com> wrote:

> "...of 20,000 dead Russians, 6,500 happened last week,LOL"
>
> Golly.
>
> I'm not going to comment on the wisdom - or lack thereof - in getting
> one's news from Twitter. Nor about the entirely bogus-looking source that
> has "Breathe" as a headline on its higgledy piggledy website.
>
> But "20,000 dead LOL"
>
> That's amusing?
>
> From a European perspective: My goodness.
>
> Tara
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> On Sun, 12 Feb 2023 at 13:38, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> of 20,000 dead Russians, 6,500 happened last week,LOL, all sources are
>> estimating. (Ukraine counts only verified bodies)
>>
>> https://twitter.com/imminent_news/status/1624760074018123777?s=20&t=3-hJ5A1pE-CTL5LFrMTADA
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 11, 2023 at 9:51 PM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Your only valid point is that ‘ethnic Russians’ is an oversimplification
>> > though there are many ethnic Russians and there is a great deal of
>> > intermarriage and a strong majority who speak Russian which is a
>> cultural
>> > statement. The thing is they did not accept the coup as valid and were
>> > attacked both culturally and militarily after the coup. They also led
>> the
>> > original fighting with  actual Ukrainian fascists who adorn themselves
>> with
>> > Nazi insignias and regulalrly heroize Stephan Bandera . The people of
>> the
>> > Donbass fought and  voted for their current status  and continue to
>> defend
>> > their choices.
>> >
>> > Calling the professional observers of the UN sponsored OCSE “Rascist"
>> > propagandists is a pretty low level of argument. But that seems to be
>> what
>> > you are left with.
>> >
>> > Then it appears you want us to belive that the people of the Donbass
>> were
>> > shelling themselves.  Please. Like the Russians blew a hole in their own
>> > pipeline. Sure.
>> >
>> > Saying "I thought they were Russians" is weak also, they were still part
>> > of Ukraine and remained so  after the Minsk accords, which both sides
>> > agreed to, but which Eastern Ukraine and Germany saw only as a way to
>> buy
>> > time to rebuild Ukraines military. Super Scummy.
>> >
>> >
>> > As to your background expertise I  don’t know or trust you, but let
>> others
>> > decide for themselves. Your proposed concern for the Ukrainian people
>> looks
>> > completely non-credible to me.I warned early in the course of the
>> conflict
>> > and its discussion on the list that your ideas, reflecting exactly the
>> US
>> > and Zelensky positions was going to cost the people of Ukraine
>> enormously
>> > and accomplish nothing to return the Donbass or Crimea. After 180-200
>> > thousand  Ukrainian dead, and total dead and wounded up to 300 thousand+
>> > Ukrainian casualties, and with the far smaller  20 thousand Russian
>> deaths
>> > and all military progress having been made by Russia, my asessment
>> stands.
>> > Feeding Ukrainians into this proxy war is sickening and you still seem
>> to
>> > support it.
>> >
>> > Your step down from argument to insult  is not particulalry
>> persuasive.  “
>> > conspiracy bullshit, Racist propaganda,  ignorant”
>> >
>> > > On Feb 11, 2023, at 9:46 AM, Martin Dietze <mdietze at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I really did not want to react to this conspiracy bullshit anymore,
>> > >
>> > > On Sat, 11 Feb 2023 at 15:25, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> *"On February 16, 2022, a full week before Putin sent combat troops
>> into
>> > >> Ukraine, the Ukrainian Army began the heavy bombardment of the area *
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Wrong. This is simply made up. Sources trace back to Rashist
>> propaganda.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > *(in east Ukraine) occupied by mainly ethnic Russians.*
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Wrong. You want to catch up with the region's history, also learn
>> > > understand that in postcolonial societies primary language of
>> > communication
>> > > not necessarily corresponds to ethnicity or even self-perceived
>> identity.
>> > >
>> > > Mike Whitney (and you, since you share his text) really has no clue
>> about
>> > > Ukraine. Him being an editor on Eastern Europe does not mean a thing
>> > here,
>> > > because Eastern Europe is not exactly small, and traditionally people
>> > have
>> > > concentrated on Russia and adapted Russian narratives on other Eastern
>> > > European countries.
>> > >
>> > > His nonsense fits well into some people's (ignorant) beliefs. That's
>> how
>> > > people start being considered "experts" nowadays. Ouch.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> * Officials from the Observer Mission of the Organization for
>> Security
>> > and
>> > >> Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) were located in the vicinity at the
>> time
>> > and
>> > >> kept a record of the shelling as it took place. What the OSCE
>> discovered
>> > >> was that the bombardment dramatically intensified as the week went on
>> > until
>> > >> it reached a peak on February 19, when a total of 2,026 artillery
>> > strikes
>> > >> were recorded. *
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Yup, there may have been shelling, but not by Ukrainian forces.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > *Keep in mind, the Ukrainian Army was, in fact, shelling civilian
>> areas
>> > >> along the Line of Contact that were occupied by other Ukrainians.” *
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I thought it was Russians living there? Mike seems confused. Doesn't
>> > > surprise me.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > * While it might be in vogue for people, organizations, and
>> governments
>> > in
>> > >> the West to embrace the knee-jerk conclusion that Russia’s military
>> > >> intervention constitutes a wanton violation of the United Nations
>> > Charter
>> > >> and, as such, constitutes an illegal war of aggression,*
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > It is. What else should this be?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> * the uncomfortable truth is that, of all the claims made regarding
>> the
>> > >> legality of pre-emption under Article 51 of the United Nations
>> Charter,
>> > >> Russia’s justification for invading Ukraine is on solid legal
>> ground.”
>> > >> (“Russia, Ukraine & the Law of War: Crime of Aggression
>> > >> <
>> >
>> https://consortiumnews.com/2022/03/29/russia-ukraine-the-law-of-war-crime-of-aggression/
>> > >> <
>> >
>> https://consortiumnews.com/2022/03/29/russia-ukraine-the-law-of-war-crime-of-aggression/
>> > >>**”,
>> > >> Consortium News)*
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > > Scott Ritter. This time not for RT but consortiumnews. That changes
>> > > everything, doesn't it?
>> > >
>> > > This whole stuff is just so ridiculous that it should really be
>> ignored.
>> > >
>> > > End of transmission.
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Dr. Martin Dietze
>> > > [https://www.martins-braindumps.de/]
>> > >
>> > > 1. Vorsitzender - Deutsch-Ukrainischer Kulturverein e.V.
>> > > Голова - Німецько-Українське Товариство Культури
>> > > [http://www.deutsch-ukrainischer-kulturverein.de/]
>> > >
>> > > Redakteur / Редактор - Karpaty Lviv Nachrichten
>> > > [https://karpaty-lviv-nachrichten.com]
>> > > --
>> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> >
>> --
>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>
>