AW: Re: Re: GRAYZONE, that black rag: Can't cut & paste

[Hübschräuber]

------- Original Message -------
Martin Dietze <mdietze at gmail.com> schrieb am Mittwoch, 22. März 2023 um 10:25:

> The OSCE has NOT reported of "eight years of shelling by the Ukrainians".

Indeed it has not. The OSCE reported eight years of "ceasefire violations" by both sides. The Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights reported:

"OHCHR estimates the total number of conflict-related casualties in Ukraine from 14 April 2014 to 31 December 2021 to be 51,000–54,000: 14,200-14,400 killed (at least 3,404 civilians, estimated 4,400 Ukrainian forces, and estimated 6,500 members of armed groups), and 37-39,000 injured (7,000–9,000 civilians, 13,800–14,200 Ukrainian forces and 15,800-16,200 members of armed groups)."

https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2022-02/Conflict-related%20civilian%20casualties%20as%20of%2031%20December%202021%20%28rev%2027%20January%202022%29%20corr%20EN_0.pdf

The numbers of dead and injured decreased significantly through the years. There was a notable uptick of "ceasefire violations" in the days before the Russian invasion which are not included in the OHCHR statement but have been recorded by the OSCE. In any case, interpreting the above as "eight years of shelling the Donbas" seems reasonable to me. You stated categorically that this was not true but have until now failed to provide evidence to support this statement.

> If interested in who's to trust there, you may want to take a look in all the reports mentioning who gave them full access and who didn't.

As regards the Donbas, I trust both sides as far as I can throw them. Fog of war and all that since 2014.

>